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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » F/X » » Sound ...What are the basics required.... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

plainman007
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Hi Guys...What would you recommend for a complete sound system to tour with my show. Lets say for an auditorium which seats 1500 spectators ? What power of amplifiers would I need in RMS ? How many amplifiers ? What power rating speakers would I need ? How many ? Do subwoofers add to the effect or are they rather left alone ? Lets explore only mixer, amplification, speakers(leaving out the source players, cd systems etc). What should we opt for ? Id love to hear your ideas.
Kevin Ridgeway
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Plainman...
If you are always indoors I would recommend a pair of mains and a pair of subs. While only one good sub would be required, having two will allow you to put the mains on top of the subs and get that additional height. I'll go into manufacturers at the end. Basically you should get a sub that has the crossover built in...so full range goes into the sub and the highs come out and into the mains. Subs definately add to the effect. You can rumble the crowd with some 50 & 60 hertz sounds, plus it will take the burden off of your mains. You can find some great deals on used speakers if you look around.
Working backwards puts us at the amps. Crown Microtech & Macrotech amps are real workhorses. You can just about dump them off the back of the truck, plug them in and they still work. I would look at two 1200 watt amps. Still working backwards puts us at you mixer. A good 16 channel mixer should be plenty for you. While Mackie is not the first choice of a lot of sound guys it will do the job.
Don't forget cables and better yet a 16-20 channel snake to get everything to where it's gotta go.
Stay with heavy duty cables and connectors and carry extras.

Put you gear in shock racks so they will serve you well for many years.

As far as speakers go...you can spend a little or a lot and every manufacturer will have different price levels. Your best bet is to go and lsten to various set ups and decide what you like at your price range.

We use Klipsch subs & mains and can handle around 2000 people with our system. When I say we can handle that amount, I mean we can still fill the theatre..not get by.

Hope that helps you get started, let me know if I can be of any further help.

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
Regan
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I have EV speakers and I like them. Get a high RMS rating on your speakers so you will have plenty of headroom. You don't want to overwork them.

I agree with Kevin about the Crown power amps. I have used them for years without the first problem. They will take lots of abuse and keep on pumping out clean power.

I don't know what your budget is like, but Carvin is a company that you might want to check into. For the money, they are tough to beat. I have owned lot's of Carvin gear through the years and I consider everything I have bought from them has been a good value.

Regan
Mister Mystery
Kevin Ridgeway
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Forget how scary Mister Mystery looks...he is giving some good advice on what to get.
LOL

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
Regan
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I get into this Halloween thing Kevin.....or maybe it gets into me?

Regormortus...I mean...Regan
Mister Mystery
Andy Leviss
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Watch out putting a pair of subs with one at each side of the stage. You'll end up getting what's known as comb filter cancellation, where the waves from each interferes with the other, and causes zones where the sound is really weak alternating with stronger zones, leaving the only full force area straight down the center, what's known as a "power alley".

On the show I'm currently touring with, just last week I went and relocated my subs from the sides of the stage to the center (in my case under a thrust stage we use, which made it easier) right up against each other, and the difference in coverage and overall level was incredible. If there's any way you can fit them under the stage (say there's a lip at the front) or otherwise put them together at center, it will work out much better.

It's not always possible, of course, so we make due with what we have (it's also possible to space them at a measured distance that causes most of the frequencies you want to come out of it to be lined up right, but that gets a bit more complicated, and there's always a compromise).
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
plainman007
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Dear Kevin,

Do you mean one pair of subwoofers. That is 2 base bins in all. And one pair of full range main speakers. One for left channel and one for right. You have suggested 2 x 1200 watts amps. Is that 1200 RMS each amp ?. One for each channel Left & Right so as to create stereo ? So if my sub has a crossover network built into it. It will take the input from these amps and pass over the mid and high freq sounds to the two full ranges on top of each ? Or do I need to split them when they come out of the amp. Woudl this be sufficient for a 200o member audience. I mean 2000 seater halls are huge aren't they. I only perform indoors by the way.

How would you rate Behringer Brand or OHM speakers ?

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your inputs. Yeah ive heard about noise cancellation theories. Like in home theaters too where they say the left and rights shudnt be right next to a corner wall. Now in our case what if I turn the subs facing the side walls. Would this work. Because base frequencies are omni directional in their bounce. What do you feel ?
Kevin Ridgeway
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Plainman....no need for stereo. We did that before and it will make no difference unless you do some extreme panning. For most any show mono will be just fine.

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
Andy Leviss
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Facing them towards the side walls won't help anything, and while subs are generally omnidirectional, they're not 100%, and so you'd lose some efficiency, not to mention having very odd cancellation issues from the reflections bouncing right off the wall and back to the subs. All in all, not a good idea.

On the subject of less than great ideas, let me go a bit further than Kevin. Two speakers/sets of speakers, one on either side of the stage, areNOT a stereo system. They constitute a split mono system. To put a stereo signal through them will only cause the vast majority of the audience to not hear much of the music/effects due to it only being on one side or the other.

For it to be a stereo system, it would have to consist of two arrays of speakers, one for each side, each of which covers the entire audience (ie, the left array has short throw speakers for those on the left, medium throw for those in the center, and long throw for those on the right, and vice versa for the right). These speakers are then balanced such that anybody anywhere in the venue will hear equal amounts of both the left and right signal. Very expensive, and you really need to know what you're doing.

And besides, there's no real reason that a magic show needs to be in stereo.
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
Kevin Ridgeway
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Andy, as always thanks for explaining it further. I knew you could come in and give the specifics.
We should all strive to learn more about production, especially sound.

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
plainman007
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Hi Andy, fine I understand your idea, and agree with you that mono wud be better. How much power in RMS do you think I need for a 2000 seater hall indoors. And will two full range speakers one on each side along with one sub per side suffice to cover an audience like this ?

PS: sorry to go off topic andy but does hocus-pocus stock your effect "Sticky Situation" ?

Hi Kevin, What do you feel about two full range speakers and two subs. Will this handle 2000 spectators indoors ? How many rms handling capacity shud my speakers and sub have ? what shud be the power rating of my amps since you have said 2 amps. Stereo mixer or mono mixer ?
Andy Leviss
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I'll have to get back to you on the sound question, I'm rather sick at the moment and just got back from a two-show day with the Muppets, so my mind isn't working on the math right now.

On the other question, I don't know if they do or not, but regardless, I wouldn't encourage you to buy my stuff from them (or anything else, for that matter). You see, the folks at Hocus Pocus don't like me, because I was critical of one of their products in a way they didn't agree with, and as a result they called me a name in an ad for one of my products, and actually edited both the graphic and text for another of my products to remove any mention of me, going as far as to imply that the latter was created and taught by my illustrator, rather than myself.

A third party contacted them (they refused to return my messages) about this on my behalf, even suggesting that if they didn't want to mention my name they could just remove my illustrator's name, too, so as not to give a false impression of who created i. Paul (the owner) told him point blank that he didn't like me, didn't respect me, and would not change a thing in the ad. Why they'd still sell my products then, I can't say, but obviously they must have their reasons, since last I checked that ad was still on their site.

If they do still carry my products, it's only because I have no control over who the distributor sells them to.
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
Kevin Ridgeway
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Plainman....I mentioned that you should look at two crown microtech 1200's. You can also look at the Macrotech 1200's.
As far as the mixer goes....as mentioed by Andy mono will be the way to go.

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
plainman007
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Oh that's sad Andy....Why wud they want to do such things...i never knew there was so much red tapism in our industry too. But the last I checked about a month ago and "sticky situation" is not on their site. But they still agree on mails that they carry the product. Anyway forget the bad...its a big world out there. Take care and keep in touch. Byeee.

Kevin : Thanks...ill look up those systems and keep you posted. Bye.
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