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mOzerian Loyal user Sydney, Global 230 Posts |
Has anyone been knocked back from a gig, because they can't afford you or cover costs.
I have a music/party gig that I really want to do..but they have come back and said that even if it is a sell out event they will only be covering their costs...thus can't afford extra entertainment.. Even if the music event is called BLACK MAGIC... My question is...should I push them and give them a lower price for a smaller performance or somthing...or should I stand tall and proud and not budge from my original offer. ?? |
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MikeSpark New user 42 Posts |
GEt someone else to pay for It maybe? SPonsership.
Mike |
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MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
If they can't afford you, then they can't afford you.
Better you move on then to have word get around your prices are "flexable". Go find people who CAN afford you! |
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mOzerian Loyal user Sydney, Global 230 Posts |
Mike...not really sure what you mean buddy....oh wait a minute should I sponser myself...
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Find a company to sponsor you. E.g. you were a T-shirt that says "AT BOB'S DISCOUNT ELECTRONICS OUR PRICES ARE DISAPPEARING!".
Maybe not that crass but you get the idea... |
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
When you lower your price, you are hurting both the market and yourself. If a client can get you for that fee, why should any client pay your full fee?
On a related note, let me tell you a story that just happened. I got a call for a party. I couldn't do it so pitched a friend. It was an important event so I quoted $1,000. The booker waited, and then said, I think we can do that. So I knew it was in their budget. I was going to send out a contract once things were confirmed. A few days later I'm talking to another magician who mentioned his agent got him the gig I had bid on. No biggie, happens all the time. TThe funny thing is that his agent talked him down from his normal fee....to $90. So, there was a client who was willing to pay $1,000, who felt the value from a magician was at that level, but because someone else (the magician, in this case) didn't, they essential gave up $910. Another factor is the agent's cut (who is known for charging a fair sum to the client and paying the artist a pittance). Still it is a matter of someone trying to convince you that you are worth less than you are. So, figure out what you are worth, and that's what you charge. If you deliver said value, you will get repeat business. If not, adjust your fee. But lowering your fee in negotiation is basically telling your client that you are not worth the price you originally requested. What does that say about you? (note: 'you' is a general 'you', I'm not trying to sound antagonistic, which you sometimes do on the internet. and by 'you on the internet' I mean.....) Brad Henderson |
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MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
My experience with Agents is that the client most likely still paid $1000; the agent kept the rest of the money....
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bubbleburst2004 Veteran user 370 Posts |
How true
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
That very well could be the case. which is why I mentioned it as a possibility. However, the dynamic holds. As long as magicians are willing to work for $90, that agent will never change his opinion of a magicians "worth."
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Hello fellow Australian
Never lower your price Magic in Australia has been killed by cheap magicians for example Darling Harbour in Sydney once had a guy go through all the restaurants and work for tips only. So why would they hire ie spend money when they can get it for free. Darling Harbour is dead for getting paid gigs Also It lowers that value of the magician- they are perceived as buskers they hustle for money which is bad in Australia (not sure how you guys do it in the USA) An essay by Mike Ammar called negotiating higher performance fees states you should ask for double and negotiate down to the price you want, the essay is in his book and on audio tape. HOWEVER I'm not a big fan of this method, I have a set price and stick to it, and I do lose sales because my fees are high but when it comes to price don't think local think international. When I do some magic at my local hotel people will come up to me and say I've got $150 would you do a party for this amount, They don't realise I'm 13 times that amount, If you do drop your prices make sure that you get the advertising or marketing benefit from it. Say that you get advertising at the venue, you are to be included on radio and TV, and also why not get some tricks to sell afterwards if it's appropriate You can buy some pretty cheap goods from wholesale magic deallers and sell them after the show- just be sure to get some stickers to place on all the tricks with your name on it. Also if you own a Camera( or hire one)- FILM your act, (hire 3 cameras 1 for the audience and 2 at different angles on you.it may be a great opportunity to film it if it's in a really nice venue. How are you selling it, are you just saying I'm a magician here is my act buy it now or do you have Testimonials, performance highlights, referals it's these plus a whole lot more that will get you the price you want. Oh and in Australia their are lots and I mean lots of Cheap Agencies- stay away from them they will ruin your business. They know a tiny amount of marketing, the old saying is true give a man a fish - should I finish? but don't rely on others to do your marketing and selling- learn it your self Anyway gotta go David Welzman Infotainer (I said this for bubbleburst) |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Hello mOzerian,
This happen to me once in Germany, I did the show, then they told me that they didn't make enough money to pay me my full price! They told me to take what they would give me or walk. Their story was the same; the cost of the promotion and the overhead cost left them with little money. I found out the next day after a few phone calls that this promoter has done this before. The performers would get robbed out of their money. The person that you have talked to is just blowing smoke up your rear end. Just do the math! They make money when people pay to enter the place. They make money when then sell their drinks and food. The promotion cost might be a radio spot with a bunch of fliers place around the town. They make money, why else would they do the event! They just want you to do your show for much less, or free! The bottom line is that these types of people want as much of the action (money) as they can get. Look out the performer! Do not lower your price. Sure you wanted to do the gig. There will be more gigs coming to you. Forget about this one. It will only cheapen you as a performer if you lower your cost. If you have decided that your act is worth so much money, then that is your market price. Be fair with yourself and stick to your price. Let them hire the Uncle Joe down the street for $20.00. You will like yourself better for keeping to your market plan. P.S. I really hope that there isn’t an Uncle Joe who lives down the street. It was just a name that I thought of. LOL Ray |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
I am constantly getting gig over other in my market by being the most expensive... it does NOT pay to be cheap or discount your show!
A Short Story: I got a call form an agent who was bidding on the same show I was bidding on, BUT the way he described it to me, I didn't even realize it was the same gig. Anywhooo, he tried to book the date at $600.00 which he wanted to pay me $300.00... of course I said NO-WAY, not even for the $600.00 he was getting! The upshot of the deal was I ended up getting the gig in-part to the fact hat I was quoting $3,000.00 plus premium expenses for the solution they were after. I got the gig cuz I was MORE EXPENSIVE, (and perceived as more professional.) and by a considerable amount. Working cheap or discounting can be contradictory to your business success. Only YOU can decide what to do for you and your situation. Faced with the facts, advice and experiences posted here, it seams that discounting is NOT, in fact after your best interest. ...now what do YOU think? I am at your service and In His Service, Dean <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
If you want to do the show...then why not just do it? Make it a charitable donation.
Too many magicians now day are arrogant and refuse to do charity. What would be the harm? If anything it will help get your name known even more, and would be a great chance to advertise.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
Astinus...It is noble to go and do charity work. But you don't do charity for For Profit companies. Your reply was ignorant at best. Nothing personal..but think about what you said. The harm would be that this is business. Charity is seperate.
Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
How many times have I been asked that very same question? There is nothing wrong about doing a good charity event! More power to you.
Their answers are all the same. "Think of all the people who will see you. Think of the contacts you will make. This may open some doors for you!" But it comes down to the simple fact, "Hey I want a FREE SHOW! How about it?" I have done a few free shows in my day. I remember this lady asking me my price over the phone and I told her that it would be this much plus expenses. She tried her best to talk me down to half price. Then she realized that I was not taking the bait so she went into the above scam of asking me to do it free for charity. "Think of the people who will see you! Image the doors that could open up for you! I am sure that when people see you they will hire you at your full price!" There is a time and place for everything. I really do believed in charity if that event or cause pulls at your heart. After all we are humans and magicians do have feelings. Bottom line is what Astinus mention in his above post. (Quote:) Too many magicians now day are arrogant and refuse to do charity. What would be the harm? (End of Quote.) There are some of us that try and make our living at being entertainers. Charity work will not pay the bills or put food on our table. That is the harm. Ray |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
Maybe it is because I do mostly charity events.
It is great for me and for the people. Bringing joy without cost.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
I was contacted by a "charitable organization" who asked for a magician. I donate one free show a year to a worthy cause, but was not available. She mentioned how everyone was donating their time. So, I referred a friend who could have used the experience. Imagine his surprise to find out that they had hired a stage magician and flown him in from out of state.
How would that make you feel? My friend stayed and did the show. I, however, would have walked. If a client will lie to you, even in the name of charity, they deserve no consideration. Now Austinus, it's not a matter of arrogance, for some of us, it's a matter of livlihood. The game changes when your art is how you eat. Finally, as to the notion that "it will be great exposure" heed this warning: People die from exposure. Brad |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
Doing real "Charity" work is necessary for a balanced business professional.
As others have stated... charity is reserved for those who DESERVE it and NOT those just looking for FREE entertainment cuz they don’t want to pay or ‘say’ they can’t afford your professional services. I do a TON of charitable giving in my business and life. For us, (My wife & Myeslf) we find in necessary as human beings. But that is just us. I have been mightily blessed with a lifestyle that allows me to give allot of my time to my church and my community. Keeping in mind the sorts of “charitable giving” we do. We have our regular giving that we have decided to support every year, and that does NOT INCLUDE cheap-skates who simply ‘want’ quality entertainment for cheap or FREE… NO-WAY! Again, it is up to EACH as to how and when to GIVE, and though I encourage regular giving, their is an important distinction between charitable giving and doing cheap or free shows for those that SHOUD, by every estimate, PAY for quality entertainment services! Good discussion gang! I am at your service and In His Service, Dean <>< PS Quote:
"Finally, as to the notion that "it will be great exposure" heed this warning: People die from exposure." ...it can also get you arrested! (Hehehehe!)
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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wizardofsorts Special user Chicago, IL 935 Posts |
You cannot, according to my tax professional, "donate" a service. So, if you're looking for a tax right off, look elsewhere.
Edd
Edd Fairman, Wizard of Sorts is a corporate magician available for your next trade show, hospitality suite, client luncheon, or company event. http://www.wizardofsorts.com
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
But they can pay your fee and then donate said fee back to the charity.
Brad |
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