Sorry that I'm almost following you again Ken, but I can only agree with you whole-heartedly.

Do your own thing Steve, what makes you happy.

Weasel

Ummm.... Whom thought this way?

Not anyone Houdini performed for.

There is not a single bit of print from his time that supports the statement.

Yes, people might think that today; but they didn't then.

We are all who we ARE. We all contribute and have an impression to make. Let's revel in that and get on with it.

Steve

Hey, Welcome back Steve! Hope you and the family had a good trip. We really missed you around here (well, some of us did) Hope to see you here more often now.
As a side note, I'm probably one of a handful of people on the Café that has actually had the priveledge of seeing Mr. Santini perform live before an audience. I find his escapes to be very original and unique, and very enetertaining. He's also been very generous with sharing his methods. In my opinion, he's a very valued asset and resource to the escape community. Once again, welcome home Steve. I hope to hear more about the trip.
Best regards, Tony Parisi

Yes we need more People like Mr/Sir Santini.

>There is not a single bit of print from his time that supports the statement.

So you have read every single bit of print?

I have seen more than one letter written to newspaper editors who ran reviews of Houdini's shows that far from wax lyrical.

<<<So you have read every single bit of print?>>>

I have known Sid Radner for many years; I am positive I have seen more than most.

<<<I have seen more than one letter written to newspaper editors who ran reviews of Houdini's shows that far from wax lyrical.>>>

So you are ready to name the source and date of the paper that said Houdini took to long to make his escape?

Please let us all know where and when it was.....

Dear Dr. Zodiac,

I should have posted earlier; "I am glad I have been of help to you over the years AND I am glad you have been such a good friend and have been of such great help to me".

"Thanks man".

Steve Santini

Technically...as Steve Santini...Tont Paris and others can testify...

I was Houdini Reincarnated.

And heck,...

You still look pretty darn good too!

Steve Santini

Mark, your post seems very aggressive. I would gladly have a look through my material but I do have rather a lot and it could take some time.

One letter I can remember off hand I believe is quoted in DeVal's Cell Escape. A piece of correspondance from somebody who had witnessed/read a report about a Houdini cell escape. He pointed out that if the feeding hatch had been left open there really was no mystery to the escape which became, by implication, boring for the lock was obviously just manipulated from within the cell.

Whether the content of the letter is true or fair I will not comment but here is somebody in public suggesting Houdini was not all that wonderful and gripping as some had suggested. Not the only example, I am sure.

Yep, break out the books and read. Houdini had a few boring runs mentioned, the straight jacket in the cabinet being the first one that comes to mind. Read the books about him.

Yes Houdini had a few failures, who hasn`t, but in fifty years time who on this board will the public still be talking about ?
I see no mileage in knocking the King. Just think what could be achieved in biulding on his strong foundation.

Well said, Ken



Well, that letter was written by a jealous local magician, who claimed he could do the same escape if given the opportunity. So why didn't he?

Although I don't commend the way Houdini dealt with some people (particularly his "imitators"), let's not forget he was at the top of the tree for many years, and people queued "around the block" to see him.
He was a hard act to follow -- he is still.

As David DeVal used to say, "there's no point trying to be the "New Houdini" - the world hasn't finished with the old one yet!

We don't need any new (or re-incarnated) Houdini's. We've got some GREAT Escape Artists around at the moment - time moves on!!

Riley

<<<Mark, your post seems very aggressive.>>>

No sir, it reflected your tone to me. If you found it so you need to look to what you directed my way.

<<<One letter I can remember off hand I believe is quoted in DeVal's Cell Escape. A piece of correspondance from somebody who had witnessed/read a report about a Houdini cell escape. He pointed out that if the feeding hatch had been left open there really was no mystery to the escape which became, by implication, boring for the lock was obviously just manipulated from within the cell.>>>

You might want to look up the defination of "boring" so we can agree upon one for this discussion.

Understanding the method is not the defination I would use. More to the point, your contention that Houdini took "too long" and was "boring" is.

<<<Whether the content of the letter is true or fair I will not comment but here is somebody in public suggesting Houdini was not all that wonderful and gripping as some had suggested. Not the only example, I am sure.>>>

Not the same thing as boring or "too long". You have to stick with what you claim, not jump about when on the hook. That people were unhappy with a performance can have a great many reasons.

YOU said people thought Houdini took too long and was boring. THAT is what I want to see in print.

Thank you

Mark Tripp



Sorry but this is simply wrong.

People were not BORED by Houdini's Strait-jacket out of view. They simply DID NOT BELIEVE he did it without help.

Not the same thing at all sir.

When brother Theo tiped him to doing it in full view, it clicked big time.



Well, the issue here is one of "projection" and more to the point the silly idea that those doing it now are somehow much better than Houdini as by intimation they don't take too long and are not "boring".

The truth is, when they shed a strait-jacket in 5 seconds they become fools. No one in the audience believes they are really in there; and there is NO presentation or showmanship in such a release.

I find the entire "look you tied me up and now I am out" to be VERY boring, as do most audiences. Hence the need for showmanship and presentation.

THAT Houdini had, and most of his followers do not.

True and there was one guy that got out of one in 45 seconds I was the time keeper. problem is he had his arms/hands up awful high either the jacket was rigged or he cant realy work it out.

Yet again, Mark, you are unnecessarily aggressive. Do you deliberately want to raise the temperature in this place?

My tone to you? My, I merely asked you whether you could really know for fact what you said in a rather sweeping statement. If you took that personally my sincere apologies.

The problem with the net is that you cannot write with tone so you have to take everything at face value. Please do not try and infer things from what I write. I know a lot of people on this forum are full of spite but do not take me for one of them.

>YOU said people thought Houdini took too long and was boring.

No need to shout.

Now please point out where I 'contended' that Houdini took too long to effect his escapes. I picked up on somebody elses suggestion that some people regarded Houdini as boring. I did not pick up on the taking too long part. I was making a different point. This besides, why do you care so much?

I am not taking sides with whoever made that initial comment against you like we were in some schoolyard. I was merely trying to add another angle to our discussion. And now, of course, as usual, it is turning sour.

> You have to stick with what you claim, not jump about when on the hook.

What I 'claimed' was that not everybody 'waxed lyrical' about Houdini. And that I confirmed with the evidence I cited above. The very fact that you believe you have me 'on the hook' is a clear indication that you are being aggressive.

Cutting back to the chase, just because something is not in print does not mean it was not so. If you were to go to see Copperfield and you thought he flashed at one point or drew out an illusion too long you would not write an article about it for a paper! And I doubt you would even write a letter to an editor about it. So your demand for print evidence is not the write request to make to solve the suggestion that has been put to us.

Now, to further this discussion along, writing these posts has jogged my memory. I now remember seeing an interview on television with somebody (now an old man) who was talking about seeing Houdini as a boy. In the interview he said he remembered people being bored because the escapes took so long but they put up with it because they wanted to see whether he would get out. This is coming back to me the more I think about it but I cannot remember the source. Does this ring any bells with anybody?

I am sure somebody (Mark?) might argue that if they wanted to stay and see the result then they clearly were not bored but I believe anybody thinking that is just facetious.

I just wish I could remember when/where I saw it.

Who was it that considered Houdini boring? To quote you Doctor, from June, "Facts, I need facts!" LOL, I knew if I waited long enough, I could get ya back. All in good fun Glad to see you posting again.

A well known magician who owns a shop in Chicago has stated that he fell asleep during Houdinis show it was so boring.

Ok, so like Area 51, now we resort to third hand accounts, with no names on them?

It is no revelation that magicians thought Houdini was not very skilled.

Vernon hated Houdini as a performer too.

Whom DID THE PUBLIC think was better?

This is a core issue boys and if you can't grasp this one there is no way you are going to progress.

The PEOPLE WHO PAID HIM, NEVER thought Houdini was boring or took too long. His audience never thought so either.

That magicians were negitive because they were jealous is not only not new, these pages are filled with it as well.

Not going to get there this way. I reject the premise as unfounded and lacking any evidence. Moreover, the core point was the silly attempt to infer that escape artists today are better than Houdini because they work much faster and do not bore their audience.

I reject that one too.