Subj: Challenges- moving the art ahead. Making your own name.
Date: 11/1/04 9:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Rosabellhh
To: escapeartists@yahoogroups.com

Where are all the challenges today? Except for a very few no one is doing anything in this art. I know it is not easy. But do you just want to copy the Water Cell and the Milk Can or do you want to create something new that others have not done?
Just 20 years ago escape artist had this art on a roll, now except for a handfull of a few hard working artist, who is going to pick up the ball?
Where are the fearless warriors that start something and then don't back down? Where are the 100 foot bridge jumps?Where are the buried alives?Are we going to let the old timers like Manzini or Baker take all the risk? Cindy picked up the ball. My wife said if more men, real men don't step up to the plate she will even though she is an assistant just to help the art along. Lets go guys, get some guts, give it a shot. Bigelow

Some of the rivers here are polluted. and full of stuff that shouldnt be in there I was asked to do a jail cell escape. but need to get more information on it.

Norm,

I think the problem is all of those things have been done and do not move the press.

EVERYONE is doing Houdini as they see him, rather than moving in new and exciting directions.

Illusions are in big trouble because Copperfield has defined the field and everyone copied him.

I will say again magic would be VERY dead if EVERYONE did Keller or Henning, or Blackstone.

A NEW persona and direction is needed.

Sadly, most people in here don't see that, so think the same escapes done "faster" will do the trick.

It won't, it MUST be taken in a new direction.

I await the young to do just that.

I don't think age matters as long as you are different.

Don

I think you missed my point.

It is about the "young"; youth sells.

Read showmanship for magicians.

As to different, I did make that point as well.

I'm not young but as for timing I have been told that the audience wont sit still like they did for Houdini.

A new persona and direction is needed? I say criss angel is a new persona.

Don

Yes he is but I heard some think its to gorey. one needs to be in my opinion something the family can watch. what parent wants to find out their kid tryed hanging himself/herself like criss angel does.

There comes a point in most extreme hobbies when the risk/reward ratio tips the wrong way, or to put it another way when you go from being a sterling lionheart taking the art forward to a desperate nut killing himself for attention. The former is a hero, the latter a rather less sympathetic figure.
This art has had over a century now to reach that point, and each time, though the risk remains the same, people get more cynical, to the point where Robert Gallup (whose extreme sports-influenced approach does a great job of justifying these sort of things and avoiding the "desperate nut" stigma) can get thrown out of an aeroplane in a cage with his parachute attached out of reach on the outside and get criticized for his troubles because the "danger isn't apparent enough" (personally I think only an idiot could fail to see the danger in that, but apparently people did). Whether that's a problem with bringing things across on TV or just a desensitised audience, he must sometimes wonder why he bothers (though we're very glad he does!). Actually, come to think of it, it's news to me that no-one's doing risky escapes these days; the websites of performers whose standing would allow these things all have accounts of such publicity stunts, and we've seen plenty described on this board in the last six months I've been here.

From the posts above, it appears what's needed is a completely new and original approach with genuine and unmistakable spectacle and danger, using hazards and ideas that have never been done before but which need to be kept tame enough to appeal to a family audience. Great, I'll be off to get started then, since it's so easy. The problem with the next big thing is it's only obvious once someone else has done it, and it's much easier to bemoan the lack of anyone doing it and to complain it's not quite right when someone does hit it big.

At my level (still starting out as a performing escapologist, although I've done challenge escapes as a hobby for some time) I have no experience of the logistics of sorting out dangerous escapes these days, though public liability, health and safety issues and economics must all be much exaggerated factors these days; abundance of opposing lawyers is likely to be at least as much an obstacle as lack of testicular fortitude.

But hey, once I'm at a level where the opportunity is there to escape from a rocket set on a collision course with the sun, I'll be there, even if my gimmick may hinder my chances of making the "real man" stakes.

I think Reno is correct, the timing is not yet. There will be an ea surface eventually who will leave his or her mark.Things tend to go in circles wait long enough and the old will once more become the new.Houdini is dead, long live Houdini. Anyone trying to make their own success on anothers shirt tails will fail,a completely different approach will be required.
As far as I am concerned in the UK cash is not available for promotion of escapology, in the US, it is. So as I enter my final year in this field I offer up thanks that I have made my living from this my hobby,am still alive, not too damaged and able to enjoy a retirement in comfort, all from entertainment. Memories rather than brash deeds of do or dare,will take me to my grave,,,smiling.

2 words ... 1 name ... (for the UK)

Tom Lyon.

In my humble opinion, anyway!

James.

It will be a matter of finding a unique approach that will break past the TV-spectacle "seen it, what else is new" barrier.
Whatever that approach is, I suspect it will not be based in the 'daredevilism' that intrigued the public when Manzini, Norm Bigelow, Steve Baker and Bill Shirk were grabbing our imaginations.
It may have to be something that moves in a whole new direction; an unseen tangent.

Steve

I agree 100%

"It will be a matter of finding a unique approach that will break past the TV-spectacle "seen it, what else is new" barrier.
Whatever that approach is, I suspect it will not be based in the 'daredevilism' that intrigued the public when Manzini, Norm Bigelow, Steve Baker and Bill Shirk were grabbing our imaginations."

Yep, that stuff is all pretty much toast, and not because it wasn't raw and good material and well entertaining in every respect.

Its this thing... "the TV-spectacle "seen it, what else is new" barrier." ......the root of the problem.

We need new ideas and publicity as well. where would we be without Kondini and the others I have a feeling what Kondini might be doing when he retires.

I agree that the art (magic, illusions, escape, etc.) needs someone to step up and come up with something exciting and new.
I hope that it will one day be me. The problem is that most people look to follow others instead of beating their own path.
I feel that that masked magician was right in his attempt to change magic but wrong in the way he went about it. He had no creativity of his own and could do no better himself and is just as guilty as the magicians he was aiming at.

I'd like to share a little story kida of relevant, it makes ya think a little.
A young man once asked Mozart, the great composer, to tell him how to write a symphony. Said Mozart: you are very young to begin to write symphonies.
But you composed them when you were only ten years old, the youth replied.
Yes, Mozart returned, but I did not ask how.

Well put!

Steve Santini

If you belive his aim and goal was to help and change magic, I have a bridge to sell you.

He was found out, and about to be exposed. He rushed his own "unmasking" to beat others, then gave us the horse droppings about helping magic.

Now he whines that he can't get jobs.

He did what he did for the money and because he had NO talents or skills other than to expose magic.

Were this not so, he would have gotten somewhere BEFORE the specials.

The fact that he is nowhere AFTER his specials, says it all.

In truth, NONE of us should speak his name again. Let him die and be buried in an unmarked grave.

We all need more stuff to come out most of the stuff that is out EA's already have or don't want it.

Hello!!!!!
I am new to this site and I must agree magic needs a shot in the arm.I have never heard magic being ridiculed on T.V. etc like I do now.MAGIC has always sucked.I read back issues of magazines from the 50's and it was a problem then.I am however confused.We magicians seem to be the only ones complaining.I perform 300 shows a year and after doing it for 18 years now I am still amazed at audience reactions.The simplest things seem to amuse them.To an audience most magic is new and exciting.I dropped out of the magic community years ago and just lately re-surfaced.It is still the same.I had the pleasure of knowing Doug Henning as a young teen.Doug greatly influenced me and suggested things I should study etc.Doug was the last great trend setter and its time for a change once again.I do not believe he would still be a success if he had remained the same and still performed todayLet's focus more on the magic and cover up those assistants pretty little behinds.