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imagealter Regular user Christopher Griffin 158 Posts |
Simply put..His stuff rocks and creates methods for me I never knew existed in my brain. I have most of his stuff and let me tell you..it is worth every penny (and this is basically what he charges or under-charges for his work)
Keep it up Zach. A small handful of greenbacks for such creative ideas and effects I can USE will sell me all day long. C |
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Angelo Carbone V.I.P. 1480 Posts |
Zach has come up with many good ideas and I feel young creators especially as young as Zach should be encouraged . We all have different tastes and styles of magic and cannot be pleased by all products/effects availble. It is just not realistic.
Justified criticism should be addressed to Zack privately, but to just say something is rubbish openly is both unfair and discouraging to Zach and others.
The Gift: Trick of the Year 2017
My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/themagicinventor |
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DJG Inner circle 1296 Posts |
I disagree...
EVERYONE is entitled to his or her own opinion, thus the title of this forum: The Good, the Bad, and the Garbage There were no personal attacks against Zach, and nothing to address "privately". If everyone followed the advice you give, we would all have mounds of useless stuff (one's garbage, another's treasure and visa versa). This is a forum to try and weed out the treasures from trash... |
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Angelo Carbone V.I.P. 1480 Posts |
Deceptionguy, you make some valid points which I do agree with however I did not say there were personal attacks and everyone is entitled to an opinion but at least give reasons so we can understand why something may not be favorable in one's eyes. Just to say something is rubbish and not know why, then we don't learn anything. If someone has made a mistake or not thought through a routine properly, then why not inform the inventor so that it can be improved upon? Ideally privately of course and not openly without revealing methods.
Am just saying if I made a mistake or did something not right, I would like to know what it was so I can learn for future reference or improve what I did. Best Angelo
The Gift: Trick of the Year 2017
My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/themagicinventor |
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DJG Inner circle 1296 Posts |
Ah, point taken...
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Neil Elite user 486 Posts |
I must say I wasn't pleased I paid money for Ignus Flatus.
But, if it's possible after saying that, all credit to him for coming up with ideas. |
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David Nelson Elite user San Mateo, CA 404 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-11-18 13:27, Angelo M Carbone wrote: I have to say I disagree with you completely. You shouldn't encourage anybody who attempts to become a professional without a professional caliber product. By selling his creations Zach has stepped into the realm of professional and there is a certain level of professionalism that is to be expected. Editing, research and refinement of his creations are all necessary parts of a professional product. If he wants to be an amateur creator he can share his effects with whoever he wants in order to get encouragement and, hopefully, good advice that will help him raise them to professional caliber. There's more than enough junk out there for people to buy. Lots of awful magic books were printed in expensive hardbound editions because some publisher or jobber thought they could sell them to us. Some aren't awful but have problems which should have been addressed before they were published. Some are full of good tricks but amateurishly written, look at Classic Magic of Larry Jennings for a classic example, no pun intended Some were full of minor variations or total rip offs of other people's magic, look at the last Karrel Fox book, for example. I can't remember the name at the moment. Some are full of creative ideas that just don't work in the real world or haven't been thought out well enough to be anything other than starting points. I don't have a specific example of this one but some of Paul Harris' stuff falls under this category, as does some of Sankey's. However, they published enough good material along with the mediocre to make up for it. I know nothing about Zach's material but the complaints sound like he suffers from all three of the above problems which means he isn't putting out a professional quality product and shouldn't be encouraged to continue until he improves. I also think anyone who publishes should be forced to read what is already out there and have their manuscript proofread by someone with an extensive knowledge of the magical literature. Hopefully, intelligent editing will reduce the glut of redundant and derivative magic effects. An author is expected to know their subject. When their knowledge of magic is limited to a few magic DVDs and a few books they can't write with any authority on the subject. This brings me to a pet peeve of mine. If you haven't performed your effects hundreds of times so that you know the pitfalls, the outs and every subtle nuance that turns your little trick into a piece of magic, you shouldn't write about it. Why? Because you don't have the knowledge to be an authority on that trick. I don't care if you came up with the idea and you think it's brilliant. Each effect you create deserves your time and attention to perfect it. If it doesn't get that, then it's just an idea. I have tons of notebooks full of ideas, as do lots of magicians. I have only taken the time to bring a few of them to A material level. I'll get to the rest of them one effect at a time. When I feel like it, I'll share the A material with the rest of the magic community and other would be authors ought to be the same way. It's not the quantity of ideas but quality of those ideas by which you'll be judged in the long run. One other thing, don't buy e-books or anything else based on some web review. If you respect the reviewer, that's fine. If the reviewer goes into detail and you like what you hear, that's fine to but be aware that I see a lot more, "It's great!!!" reviews with no supporting evidence than anything else on the web. Just my opinion, Dave |
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montz Special user 576 Posts |
I think that depends on what you are trying to achieve Dave.
First point worth noting is that Zach doesn't pretend to be a professional magician. He doesn't claim to work each routine 10,000 times before a lay audience - and to me, that's fine. He is selling his IDEAS, not his audience tested routines. I bought the manuscripts to read the ideas, and play around with them, working them into routines that suit me. This, to me, is fun. And then going out and performing something different to other magicians (who are generally still twisting aces) is also enjoyable. Interesting that you disagree with young creators being encouraged... If Richard Kaufman hadn't encouranged the work of a Seventeen year old Farm Boy, we would be missing perhaps the most creative force of our time. (I am, of course, refering to Jay Sankey). But overall, I think you REALLY should read Zach's work. As much as I don't trust reveiws that just say "This is Great", never EVER trust a reveiw that says "I haven't read it but..." Just some thoughts, Liam. |
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Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
An author is expected to know their subject. When their knowledge of magic is limited to a few magic DVDs and a few books they can't write with any authority on the subject.
This brings me to a pet peeve of mine. If you haven't performed your effects hundreds of times so that you know the pitfalls, the outs and every subtle nuance that turns your little trick into a piece of magic, you shouldn't write about it. Why? Because you don't have the knowledge to be an authority on that trick. I don't care if you came up with the idea and you think it's brilliant. Each effect you create deserves your time and attention to perfect it. If it doesn't get that, then it's just an idea. I think the above quote by David sums it all up. Most of the things I've purchased from some of the new guys/gals suffers greatly from this. Not original and not worked out. |
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runawayjag Inner circle 1085 Posts |
Jay Sankey, the most creative force of our time??? Maybe one of the most prolific, but certainly not one of the most creative and above all not one of the most original. Look at this current onslaught of output. I thought you were going to say Vernon on Marlo or Jerry Andrus or maybe even Paul Harris (some of his stuff may be very lame, but it IS original.)
Oh well, to each his own. |
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montz Special user 576 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-11-21 10:07, runawayjag wrote: Admittedly, the recent onslaught has been rather soul destroying, but a flick through either Sankey Pankey or 100% Sankey will reveal some very creative and workable pieces.... Not that this is even the topic to be discussing this. My original point was that young creators should be encouraged... and mentioning Paul Harris as you did, I believe he started young in terms of creating... It would be interesting to know what would have happened had everyone told him to go do each routine 1000 times in front of paying customers before making it available. Liam. |
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David Nelson Elite user San Mateo, CA 404 Posts |
Liam,
You have misunderstood what I wrote. Let me clarify. When I used the term professional I was referring to being a professional creator. Zach explained that he doesn't perform much and, when he does it's for the guys at his school. My point was that by selling his material he has moved into the realm of professional, as a creator. Jerry Andrus doesn't perform much anymore but he still creates. Paul Harris doesn't perform at all anymore but he still creates. Simon Aronson and John Bannon both are professional lawyers so I assume they don't perform professionaly very often but their creations are often excellent. It's possible to not be a professional magician and still come up with professional quality creations which is what should be expected of material put out for sale. Quote:
On 2004-11-21 11:22, montz wrote: Both Paul Harris and Jay Sankey started young. That's why I used them as examples. They both had professional quality creations to sell even at an early age. I do believe that if Paul Harris had performed every effect in his books hundreds of times as I sugggested we would have had less filler and more quality routines in his early books. One can recognize the effects that he used in his act from the effects that were just ideas in his early books and in most books based on how they are written up. I agree that Jay Sankey's early stuff was excellent. However, Kaufman didn't take him under his wing, tutor him and help him refine his effects. Jay sent a video to Richard and Richard said, this is great stuff, let me publish it. Jay's material stood on its own regardless of his age. Currently, Jay releases stuff and it sells based on his reputation because he's done good stuff in the past. Some of his new stuff isn't as good, in my opinion, as his early stuff but that reputation helps to sell it. My argument is that if Zach's material doesn't stand on its own merit, he shouldn't publish it. I made no statement about the quality of Zach's material except to say that based on the above complaints some of his material was derivative, was poorly written and edited, and hadn't been audience tested. As I haven't read the material I can't make my own judgement but, if this is true, it doesn't deserve to be published and certainly doesn't deserve a place on someone's bookshelf. There are places where amateaur creators can send their creations for peer review, suggestions and they can make a reputation for themselves if their creations are good. We have plenty of magazines that will publish your stuff and give you a little more legitimacy than an ebook. They will also edit your writing and you will begin to gain a reputation. You can publish here on the secret sessions which is almost guaranteed to get support. People are so thrilled to get an effect on the secret sessions that they are far less critical than if they had purchased it. Just my opinion, Dave |
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