You will, Peter, you will.

I think Oscar Wilde said that.

I don't do one "Original" piece of magic in my show, but many people praise my creativity and call my work original. It's because I created a character, created a story to tell, then selected magaic that edified the character and moved the story. Along the way I tinkered and did a little re-packaging. The end result being highly original PRESENTATIONS of classic, tried and true magic.

That is how I am creative.

It was Whistler's. The one about the jam donut was Wilde's.

Forget Oscar. Thornton was Wilder.

Whit:

You are right. Oscar was the "re-Peter."

Is that really creative? Magicians have been doing that for years. I think creativity is the whole package. Anyone can be a character, show a magic trick but few really do anything different then that. Magic reminds me of ventriloquism, when you get down to it, its just a dummmie with the hand of magical expections shoved up his butt.

Lee

Lee:

Then you would say Sinatra wasn't creative because he didn't write his own songs. Louis Armstrong for the same reason.

There are very creative performers who do not write their own material.

Laurence Olivier as Shakespeare's Richard III. Ignace Paderewski playing Chopin.

Sometimes the interpreter of a writer's work is vitally important to the success of the performance.

Creativity is in what the performer brings to the material just as much as it is in the creation of the material, and sometimes more. Many a lame song and weak magic trick have been made memorable by excellent performance.

Perhaps anyone can, BUT very few do it well.

People have different talents. Some of us find what is possible. Some of us make the possible practical. Some of us find the stories, some of us present the stories, and some of us seem to live the stories.

We are each unique. Making new things begins with respecting what is, beginning with people.

Grumble grumble.

I'm not saying that just because you perform the works of other doesn't mean you aren't creative. I'm saying that like most bands in music, magicians follow a certain standard of their 'art'. Rarely do any magicians break out and do something different. Blaine is a good example, he clearly created a different way of presenting him-self. It doesn't matter if what he does is considered is good or bad, it just matters that he is doing it. Side note; Blaine is making Korn and Benn look like fools. I didn't see how much of a master Blaine was of TV magic, until I almost fell asleep watching Benn do that horrible Ouija board routine. Sigh.
The best metaphor I can give of this is in fashion. Just because everyone has a different shirt on, doesn't make them all different. They are the same inside and whats inside is what counts. I'm saying that it doesn't matter what shirt your wearing (This shirt could be a ace assembly or ID), what matters is what is behind that shirt. Creativity isn't an oringal painting or some move with a deck of cards, it is on a higher level.

Lee
P.S. You want to see uncreativity? Just read this whole thread, most of the posts are just rehashes of whats already been said about creativity in magic.

Lee,
Blaine is original and creative? I will agree that he has been intentional and impactful. But original? Far from it. Houdini did Blaine before Blaine did Blaine. Malini was the king of close-up "miracles". And the healer, the peace bringer, the mysterious stranger? That was Jesus' gig.

By the way, that is the point for Blaine. He is intentionally attempting to invoke those parallels. It's brilliant, but it ain't original. And not one of his effects are original to him. Not one.

Before this goes off as a "Blaine Bash" I want to clarify that I like him, and think he has done something good for magic. But let's not credit the man with more than he is.

Maybe so but, how is this different from you using a marketed trick? You take it and apply it to your performances. However, Blaine creativity comes in how he applied this simple character. I'm sure most magicians wouldn't 'dumb it' down on tv, mainly because they know that these characters are boring in normal performances. Maybe it was just dumb luck on his part.

Schaden

Creativity is an annoying necessity, not a goal of art.

Cousteau invented many devices essential to exploring the depths of the ocean, not because he wanted to be different or creative, but because he needed them to get where he wanted to go.

I would differ on this. However, he wasn't creating art, he was just making something to do a job.

Schaden

Schaden:

How is it different for an artist?

Missing...

I think what you are all missing here is that magic, art, and entertainment are all expressions of mythology. Do you think a sad song about your lover leaving you is original? Of course not. We have millions of songs like that. A movie about a hero who has a flaw but overcomes it to succeed? Of course not, that's nearly every movie you watch. People have had the same emotions, family situations, fears and passions for hundreds of thousands of years. Creativity isn't about creating a new theme, it's about creating a new expression or new mechanics behind that expression. What you express has been said before, what is original is HOW you say it.

Some are upset about people who parrot the patter of other magicians. I think that's "weak" as well. It happens, especially among beginning magicians, and magicians that are more concerned about mechanics than presentation. What do you expect? Most magicians are introverts who like to sit and play with a deck of cards or a coin all day. This isn't the type of person that is adept at socialization.

In order to be a good magican you have to dedicate time alone with yourself as well as dedicate time to learn how to interact with people sucessfully. People who are more introverted are afraid to do that so they use the patter provided with the trick.

It's bad, in fact, its awful, so we shouldn't do it.

But saying that a typical magician (or magic itself) is inherently less creative than another art form is just a load of hooey.

Art imitates life, and art imitates art. There are many differnt things that humans express, but the broad outline has always been expressed somewhere before, "the song remains the same".

What people connect to in magic or any art, is something that is MEANINGFUL to them. To be meaningful one must use recognizeable symbols and themes. By representing what people have in common, you really reach out to an audience.

If ya wanna hate, you can hate. Magic and magicans are often bad in performance. It's an easy straw man to knock down.

But I think what we are doing with magic is positive, creative, communicative and meaningful, so I say, instead of trying to knock people down, we should try to lift them up to a better performing standard.

No one can prove to you that magic is creative. If you wanna hate, you will hate. Anybody can hate everything and say it all sucks. No one can prove your personal tastes wrong.

Hey, I say, for all those awful magicians out there that are reciting patter from DVD's like its a movie script, the one guy ad-libbing and creating a creative expression is worth it.

I misinterpreted your post wrong.

magicbymccauley,
I don't agree with your statement that putting a different emotion on something makes it creative. Creativity is creating a new theme or new way of doing something and could even be a new emotion but, if we as magicians just strive to create a different feeling for all presentations of magic then we sell our-self’s short. If everyone just tried to write a love song with a different feeling to it, music would be really boring.
Creativity has to be something new and fresh in a system with predetermined standards. It then has to set the standards for the next creative thing to come along. I could recite Klingon backwards, in a Bush mask, doing 3 fly with fish but, would that be creative? No, because it wouldn't fit in the mold good magic is normally considered in.

Creativity is the bending of the rules that the art form is governed by.

Schaden

What's wrong with performance art?
Perhaps my coins across would benefit from such a presentation. lol

Many people may or may not agree with this but as a magician we have to learn how to do magic.

Then learn how to perform it in frount of people or audiences. In other words part of our learnong is by doing shows.

If a magician is not doing shows they miss a chance of being creative. And making their routines a little more smoother. A little more entertaining.

Magic effects get better over time and lots of performances. I can't tell you how many times I got a line or a good idea for an effect when I was performing in front of people...

Doing shows makes magic performances better...

Creativity is not a goal of art.

The goal of an art is to explore the truth of our art and to delve into the art form and to communicate what we have discovered with others.

Like Cousteau, we are inventive and creative in order to accomplish these goals, not for the sake of being inventive and creative.

Creativity is a byproduct of the pursuit of art, not the goal.

I see as much bad magic that is very original and different as I see bad magic that is imitative.

I see good strong magic that is not original or groundbreaking, and sometimes is purely copied work.

It is still good magic, and the performer often is highly rewarded for his uncreative but well done work.

Nightclubs and cruise ships are not all about being original. They are about being solid and professional and up to date--though not necessarily cutting edge.

I see magic that is very original and completely unique that is terrible and time-wasting trash.

The goal of magic is not to be different--the goal of magic is to commuicate effectively the art of magic.

The great artists explore deeper than the others and come back with something new from deeper unexplored territories.

Schaden wrote:



This seems contradictory.

But let me reply. I think in this first part, you are confusing "creative" and "artistic." It would be creative. It would not be artistic.

But I disagree with your definition of creativity.