Having six kids though means that there is always some money coming in, so when I have no work at least we can eke by. And if we have an emergency we can dip into the savings. (It's amazing what my wife will consider an emergency, though.)
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Way to go Tom! I like that line that because you have six kids money is always coming in. (from the kids endownment maybe?) I have only 5, and 3 of them help me with shows at different times. Thing now is that now they are older, I gotta share it around with them.

JoJo

Hi Again,

I am in total agreement regarding the best possible scenerio would be to have monies put aside, whenever I have extra it goes directly on my house. It does also depend on our lifestyles and whether or not others are dependent on our income and if we rent or own our own home. There's so many factors. For me with a morgage interest of 4.3% and line of credit at 1-4% it makes more sense to put any additional monies on my home. I also have 8 mouths to feed all solely dependent on my income..granted 7 are four legged. :O)

Several years ago I was sponsered by the Federal Government whom chose me to be one of 25 people to obtain a grant (means no payback) to help first time business owners. This grant allowed us to go to business college,covered living expenses (all monies made were in turn put back into our business) and have the support of financial advisors for the duration of the year. 6 years later I still attend their round table meetings. Some of the suggestions they made is those I still follow, line of credit for business for cash flow, leasing vehicles instead of purchasing as they are 100% deductible while only a lower percentage for a purchased vehicle is..(I did this for a couple years but finally purchased an old van to transport my many animals.) In this time frame I was able to purchase a house and have built up equity for my future. I bought one house and sold it for double 5 years later and reinvested in a larger home. Again, each of us have different needs and ways in which we conduct our business and people can only advise on what they know of our personal finances.

Best advice tho is stay away from credit cards!!
>>Glances wistfully at shoes but decides they are not a priority. :O)

SteveReel,

It is nice to find someone who agrees with me. I know it is difficult for someone who has never been in business for himself, but this is exactly how real businessmen live. I've been paying income tax since I was twelve. I've never inherited a dime. Self-employment is a reality. But it takes tremendous investment in self. If it were easy there would be plenty of more success stories.

The cycle is very simple. (Saving creates savings, savings create investment, investment creates income, and income creates savings...) People without the capacity to save should not play the game. They'll have to rely on government programs. It is not for everyone. But if it does fit, it is great.

I have had a lot of doctor and entertainer friends that even after they got to incomes of from $250,000 a year up into the millions could not save. I have also had friends who made less than $40,000 a year succeed because they could save. I have seen dancers, truck drivers and barbers save and succeed.

Savings is used for investment that creates the passive incomes. Those are the incomes that are produced from rents, royalties, dividends, interest, etc. Without building this part of the business, labor is about all most people ever have to live on. It's a decision that puts limits on futures. I think I bought my first million dollar whole life insurance policy when I was twenty-six. It is tremendous stuff. It allows me to walk into a bank with cash for collateral. Then we are only discussing interest rates, not credit ratings and they have seen me walk out! You will learn that people with cash for collateral pay much less than prime interest even at banks! Prime is the lowest rate paid by "good" bank customers, not great ones! Getting yourself to that stage smoothes out the bumps in the income.

Lee was concerned how we function in credit card society. We do have one credit card for reservations etc. However, it is always paid off in total every month so there are no charges to us ever. (Remember that the merchant, hotel, airline, etc. pay a hefty fee every time they accept credit cards. You will learn that many of the good ones give a 3.5-4% discount for a company check instead of a credit card! Cash is still real money! Credit cards are gimmicks. Don’t let the misdirection get you.) If your bank or your vendor's bank does not routinely move all funds within a business day, one or both of you need a better bank. (Usually they are even cheaper than inferior banks. Not all banks are equal.)

It’s not as hard as it sounds, but it is harder than being a victim of unmanaged consumption. It is a decision and it is a lifestyle. If you can never do it for yourself, at least, raise your children to investigate the option. My children are 20 and 23. Both have trust funds they could live on. (I put them there for that purpose.) Both make good livings already and don’t need them. (One is a college graduate and the other is going now.) One makes more than doctors make and the other makes more than professors make. It’s a choice!

Decide what you want out of life and what you have to offer. Be kind to yourself and plan ahead. Save and teach others to save. Savings is the only source of investment. Without investment, the labors of many are worthless.

Bob
Magic By Sander

PS --- The handwriting has long been on the wall for the failure of many US banks. Size is no help.

Read Rich Dad/Poor Dad. Horrible man with terrible business ethics but he understands how people think about cash!

Nicholas J. Johnson,

I think I have read that.

What I did not add is that I raised my kids without their mom. Their mom was bipolar. My son went on the road with me at six-weeks old. It was not safe to leave him with his mom. I was doing over 200 stage shows a year. I loved it. This has been my first year without a kid at my elbow everyday since 1981. Dad's having problems with it!

Business ethics protect businesses from themselves. Business laws protect businesses from the public. Consumer laws (in a the absence of a free market) protect consumers from business.

We do agree in an area you could have never imagined. That is US versus the medical services available in the rest of the world. While I basically believe that if government does it, it doesn't need doing, governmental "tuning, retarding, diluting, controlling or what ever you wish to call it" in the USA has given us a third world system of healthcare. The USA ranks 14th in the world as an economy and that is fair enough. However, it lags modern medicine by nearly thirty years. Smart Americans go overseas for good medical care. What makes that hurt most is that my wife is a physician in the USA and has to practice third world medicine to keep it down to government standards. However, the US system is one of the most expensive in the world! Cost isn't value. It's just spent resources.

Stay liquid!

Bob
Magic By Sander

Expenses do go up as kids get older, so I'm trying to save now while I can, as well as improve my earning capabilities.

I created a ten year plan to financial security, and 20 years to independence and so far I've been on track for the first 2 years. We've had a few setbacks, but I know that we could have easily spent all the money earned and not felt better or lived THAT much more comfortably.
I've read many of Kiyosaki's books, and I take what he says with a grain of salt. He does have something to sell: more books, board games, seminars etc, . I like anything written by or about Warren Buffet.
There are many ways to manage finances. Many products available. I just have to go with what I think is best for my circumstances. My circumstances are very unusual, so I have never felt comfortable about consulting a financial adviser, considering they either make a living syphoning off of their clients savings or charge huge fees for information that may or may not help. Property is not something I am prepared to tackle at the moment, so I've chosen the riskier "shares" option.

When shares go up, it's easy to start thinking about borrowing to invest. But it's much better to own shares without the extra worry of having to sell at a time when they are doing bad because you have to repay a loan.

Way to go Tom!

Plan your work and work your plan!

Working toward something is always better than doing nothing. Life is full of surprises. But good luck is when preparation meets opportunity.

I have been a university finance professor. There is no secret and they'll sell the books to anybody. Nothing works until you do something! Among other things people don't understand is that you have to be able to afford to be a professor in the USA!

Congratulations on being an early planner and saver.

Bob
Magic By Sander

Well Bob I hope she is on her meds. I've been married almost 16 years and we didn't know she was bipolar until about 4 years ago. Now she is on a vitamin regimen that we found in an alternative medicine book in the library. She takes natural litium instead of the prescription stuff. I can understand the not leaving the child at home alone. You never know what to expect.

Martin

Martin,

Bipolar is not to be taken lightly. It is very controllable but the meds are the key. My wife lived and died in total denial. So there was no way to control the problem. The kids lost their mom when they were in the first and fourth grades. We were also married sixteen years.

Lucy is not their mom. Lucy and I were married only five years ago. Like too many others, I assumed that once my wife died I would never remarry. So I invested another decade without a wife. Mr. Mom was a very rewarding job! Perhaps I needed the break from marriage to “reboot”. My kids definitely needed me. You can always fake that you care, but you cannot fake that you were there. I choose to be there. The only reason the option was available was because of an early commitment to saving for passive incomes.

Lucy has certainly made me glad I waited! We have so much in common. Lucy overcame polio to be a ballerina and model in Los Angeles and New York until she was thirty-nine. Then she went back to medical school to be a country doctor. She is. She was recognized by the Wall Street Journal for her service as a private practice physician who took on the medical monopolies and won. She makes house calls. She takes her dog to the office and you can bring yours. I have known her to write prescriptions for her patients to get a cat or dog. There are times when she feels that they are what the patient really needs.

There are other areas where we fit well too. Lucy is also a stage magician with her own act. (Photo below) She performs and lectures at magic conventions. We also work on stage together. We enjoy horses, travel and teaching college together too. We keep saying that we are going to retire to just teaching college. (Neither of us is doing that right now.) However, we still have so much else to do. We added a doctor this year to her clinic to give us more road time together. But over achievers work spare time to death. We’re enjoying the magic. This year we added live unicorns to our stage show. Life is an adventure! You must be present to win! Save and invest in your self. It opens doors for everyone. People who don’t make action plans to get somewhere, usually don’t.

Take care of your self. You can’t clap with one hand. Her cooperation in recognizing and treating bipolar disorder is critical to the health of the family. It can't help but affect some your options and decisions. We'll be pulling for you. We love success stories.

Bob
Magic By Sander

Click here to view attached image.

Bob,

You are living the life many people only dream of, and sounds as if your are a success in your own right. Granted you've also had a life previously that was obviously very tough and made the most of it. I found your story very inspirational and wish you the best. Thanks for sharing your story with us.

Chrystal

Chrystal,

Thank you. That is worth a lot coming from you. I meet heroes everyday! It does enrich my life.

One of the most wonderful things about the entertainment business and magic is that it gives us the opportunity to help others take a break, smile and refocus. Magic can be very forgiving of a magician in trouble with a problem to solve. Things still work out well. Perhaps that observation and refocus helps the audience to be a little more forgiving and more willing to work on solutions too. It’s not always easy to keep the main thing, the main thing. Sometimes it is difficult enough identifying the main thing. Magicians didn’t invent misdirection. But we certainly should understand it!

Those of us, who know you, know why you are the first encourager to make contact with new members of The Magic Café. Nobody does it better. Success is a trust to be administered. It appears to me that you do it very well.

Magicians have to live with the reality that funding is an ongoing problem. There are plenty of adequate tools for doing that. Applying them is a choice. It is the adult thing to do if you want to be a magician. That too is a decision.

Enjoy!

Bob
The Amazed Wiz

Yes, Bob, you have also inspired me.

I have six children aged 2 to 10, and it is not easy to run your own business when there are so many unpredictable events occurring.

However my wife is a partner in the care of the children, so we manage somehow.

(sorry to get off topic, nicholas)

Hi Again Bob,

Thanks for saying that and I appreciate it came from you. More importantly, thanks for all that you do.

Chrystal

I detest using Credit Cards, and never need to use them when I'm based at home. But it's a completely different thing when you're traveling/performing around the world.

I was in the US late last year, and the year before. ALL the Hotels I stayed at *required* a credit card. Even if you weren't paying that way. In fact they all said the same thing on checking in; "We require a Credit Card for Incidentals", which is polite-speak for hand it over, or you're not staying.

Also when traveling there are a lot of things that need to be booked over the telephone, often on the other side of the world; lots of these places need credit cards, and most often will *only* accept credit cards as payment or reservation.

I hate using a credit card. And will only use one if there is absolutely no other way. I'll be performing across Europe this year, and I've already needed to use it.

Nicholas, I’ve done Australia and NZ without needing a Credit Card, but the rest of the world, dude... They’re all Credit Card crazzzy. And it’s not going to get any better.

-malini.

There is one little cash flow trick I learned in the consulting business that helps in the magic business. That is for sponsored events, often furnishing lodging and transportation is covered by the sponsor. If you can negotiate for them to cover those costs directly instead of your being reimbursed, it will save your cash needs to some extent. Larger companies are very used to reserving plane tickets, hotel rooms and renting cars with the charges coming directly to the company. (I've found that the accommodations are often nicer than I would have provided for myself.) They get better deals!

Bob
Magic By Sander


OK it's exam time!

We started this thread three months ago. Have any of you changed your saving habits?

It's a case of getting started, getting started!

Bob
Magic By Sander

I save 15% of my income in a personal savings account and 10$ in a 'business' savings account. The 10% is for lean times as well as being for larger expenses I need to save up for.

Congratulation Mr. Funny Bones! You're an inspiration. There is nothing like being in charge of being in charge. I like your "to do" list. It's taking care of business.

Bob
Magic By Sander