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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Major help needed!!! Important help needed!!! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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xtreme_mixers
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Hi guys I have a little bit of a problem at my church. I'm a church youth leader and on our team, one of the other people(good friend) keeps saying that magic of all kinds including gospel magic, or whatever, is bad.

She keeps pressing the fact that magic is not what god wants, and I'm not sure how to argue back. I keep saying that Gospel Magic is not magic, then she says no magic simple.

I really need advice help.
Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
tboehnlein
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Inner circle
ohio
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Check this out from Andre kole's site it might help.
http://www.andrekole.org/magicbib.html
BroDavid
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America’s North Coast, Ohio
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Ask her how she knows what God wants? The Bible?

Good, then really take a good look at what the Bible calls Magic.

It is not tricks and illusions. Ask her is it would be any different if you call it "Illusions", rather than magic.

BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
Kevin Ridgeway
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Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ
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Ask her if she believes there are good forms of deception.
If she states no..then point out these good honest forms of deception:

Camoflouge- it is used to hide things

Automatic lights in homes- used to make burglars think someone is home

Play action pass in football- used to make the defense think the running back has the ball

And the one that will strike home hard:
Make up- used to make...well she will get that one.


Ask her if she has ever received a ring or bracelet in an oversized box. Was it wrapped in a VCR box to deceive her in knowing what was inside till the last moment?

Hope that helps.

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
xtreme_mixers
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Thanks guys well I'm facing the music in about 10 min so ill see how I change her opinion thanks again guys.
Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Kevin Ridgeway
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Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ
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Good luck....we're praying for ya.

Let us know how it goes.

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
xtreme_mixers
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Well bad luck shes in texas that convo will have to wait 3 weeks but ill let you know when it happens
Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Scruffy the Clown
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Coldwater,MI
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Good. You have extra time to prepare. Load your Shells carefully. Have prenty of Scripture to back it up, and above all pray for her.
BroDavid
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That is probably the best advice given here so far, Scruffy!

Yes, by all means pray for her. And pray for wisodom, pray for courage, pray for clarity, and pray for... well...just pray without ceasing..

BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
shrink
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Change the people you hang around with. I know that won't be popular. But you won't change her mind and my guess is she is part of a whole group of people who think the same.

Choose who you associate with carefully. She is probably praying for you to give up the "evil" magic..
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
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Quite true. She sounds entrenched.

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
MarkTripp
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Michigan
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I would suggest getting a little book from the Doc Haley site:

Ethical Issues for the Gospel magician by Robert H. Hill

It has all the issues you are dealing with in there, and Bible passages to make your point.
Leland Stone
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Hiya, Xtreme:

Your friend sounds as though she has an emotional or aesthetic objection to your Art, and as such I would encourage you to engage her in dialogue, if possible. If she is willing to discuss her differences with you, then you may be able to at least bring clarity to her objection.

You may also run up against something I've termed "The Tyranny Of The Weaker Brother." Christians have a positive Scriptural obligation to refrain from behaviour that may cause distress to the conscience of another, less mature believer. In so doing, one's own liberty is made subservient to love and regard for others. However, all persons are depraved, and that depravity can manifest itself in a tendency towards self-centeredness. Some persons exhibit this tendency by elevating the dictates of their own consciences to the level of Canon, and would impose their views on others under the colour of asking deference to a weaker believer -- thus, the "Tyranny."

If a believer is truly bothered by Magic, then their conscience will disturb them with respect to any overt or covert display of supernaturalism; said person will have nothing to do with Harry Potter, Halloween, Lord of the Rings, The Chronicles of Narnia, The Wizard of Oz, Sleeping Beauty (in fact, most of the Disney opus), or The Brothers Grimm and so on and so forth.
Such a view may then be debated -- gently and with respect, of course -- but it is at least logically consistent and worthy of due regard.

If your friend is troubled solely by your Art, but she enjoys other sorts of supernatural-themed entertainment, then a civil and open discussion may be of help to her in sorting things out.

Sincerely,
Leland Edward Stone
Craig Star
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Hi,

When I first got into magic I often questioned what reply would I have to my Christians friends who objected. I came accross this site.

http://www.gospelcom.net/fcm/domagic.html

It has Biblical justification. This means you could both sit down with the bible and disscuss your points. I totaly agree with the coments about seeing if she finds Disney and such wrong.

Hope this helps
royaltmagic
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Kintuckee
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This story sounds familiar.
Same thing happened to me when I was 13 years old.
I was bringing magic tricks to church, and the youth pastor told me to stop...for they were "evil."
Needless to say, this was a main contributing factor to my disention. I then, for years, lead a life of darkness and immorality. Even becoming involved in the occult. I even tried to make people believe that I had real powers, and could perform psychic miracles.
I have since then surrendered my life to Jesus.
The point of my story is this: In my belief, Satan even tries to use believers to attack other believers to thwart the plan of God.
Xtreme...if it's God's will for you to do magic, He will open up doors for you that nobody can close.
If it is not His will, then He will close the doors, that no one can open.
I too will be praying for your situation to be resolved the way God wants it to be resolved.

Travis
"Beeble beeble beeble. Blah blah blah."

- Sum Wan

http://www.royaltmagic.com
Regan
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Travis,

I am thankful you found your way out of the occult, and even more thankful that you turned your life over to Jesus.

Regan
Mister Mystery
royaltmagic
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Kintuckee
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Regan,

Me too! Smile

Travis
"Beeble beeble beeble. Blah blah blah."

- Sum Wan

http://www.royaltmagic.com
BradBrown
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Florence, KY, USA
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Can I propose a slightly less confrontational approach to your friend who opposes magic? Instead of saying "You're wrong about magic ang here's why...", give her the chance to prove you wrong.

I assume from your post, that if the Bible really did condemn theatrical magic, you'd give it up. So, I'd recommend telling your friend that you respect her opinion, but in your own Bible studies you haven't found anything that condemns what you do. Tell her that if she can show you any Bible passage that IN CONTEXT condems theatrical magic, you'll stop.

This approach will remove much of the conflict. It also puts the ball in her court, so to speak. Maybe on further study she'll come to agree with you. (At least the odds of her changing her opinion on her own are better than her changing because you tell her she's wrong.)

Some of the reference material people have mentioned her will probably be helpful to you. I can point you to more, if you'd like. However, it's not important that you have an immediate response to her arguments. It's fine to tell her she makes a good point, and you'll have to think about it for a while. Give serious thought to any good arguments she comes up with. After all, it's not fair to expect her to seriously consider your point of view if you won't do the same for her.

I hope this helps.
Rob Johnston
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Utah
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You do magic!!!? HOW DARE YOU! Hell will open it's gates for you!!!

Excuse me, I gotta get to a gig.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
Macbeth
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Try performing 'balls over head' and ask her to point out when exactly the evil magic happened?

I have used 'balls over head' to explain the principle of magic.
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