We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Best cold reading book (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
Bambaladam
View Profile
Special user
636 Posts

Profile of Bambaladam
Quote:
On 2005-03-09 10:20, enriqueenriquez wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-03-09 08:55, Bambaladam wrote:

I will give you a freebie here: If you want to give readings from the stage, you can still do it without "cold reading". Why not do a set of 3 card tarot spreads before you go on stage, and use them for your onstage readings?

/Bamba


Paolo Cavalli has a great effect at the end of his book Omicron, using Tarot Cards on stage where you can perform readings and a live/death test. Is one of my favorites in the book.


That sounds cool! My suggestion was for psychometry readings or something like that (i.e. not using the cards openly, just doing the spreads and then using them for the readings without mentioning the cards), but I'm sure Paolo's idea is solid. As far as I know, they always are.

/Bamba
enriqueenriquez
View Profile
Inner circle
New York
1287 Posts

Profile of enriqueenriquez
Yes, Paolo’s routine is great.

I have used the cards on stage, (I even did it once on TV), not with Paolo’s routine, just doing plain readings, with great success. It depends on your angle, of course.

Dr. Zodiac also has a Tarotmetry routine on his Untitled book and, a GREAT, method to learn Tarot readings.
enigmatic
View Profile
Regular user
France
174 Posts

Profile of enigmatic
Quote:
On 2005-03-09 08:55, Bambaladam wrote:

"...but because it teaches you to help people help themselves".

/Bamba


And


Quote:
On 2005-03-09 09:15, Bambaladam wrote:

I think the most important thing to think of as you start out is what the reading situation is, how you're approaching it, what you want to achieve with it and how to develope the courage to actually have serious conversations with people you've never met and to offer sincere interest in their lives.

They will also not try to teach you contempt for other psychic readers, a good thing if you ask me as you may need to get along with these people at some point if you want to give readings.

/Bamba


Wonderfull words Bamba ! I agree with you... Definitively !
Real vision is the ability to see the invisible. (Jonathan Swift).

WWW.MAISON-HANTEE.COM
WWW.CHASSEURDEFANTOMES.COM
Logan Five
View Profile
Inner circle
Northern California
1477 Posts

Profile of Logan Five
" what about books that are specifically good leading up to The Dance?"

New Passages by Gail Sheehy is good however, as Brad states in his book that you must be careful about sterotypes. I have the Tradecraft e-book on cold reading and use the section at the end of the book which deals with common questions that you would get from a sitter.
Self concept is destiny..
Ian Rowland
View Profile
Special user
London
876 Posts

Profile of Ian Rowland
Quote:
If you looking for one to one reading, I agree with Mota. Personnally, Full fact of cold reading by M. Ian Rowland doesn't work for the real work. It's just a cold reading for public demonstration writes by a magician for the magicians. For years I make readings regularly and If I had to use the techniques of Mr Rowland for one to one reading, I would fail, for sure. His techniques doesn't work for the real people

An interesting point of view. It's a shame it just doesn't jive with the facts. A long, long time ago, I was challenged to prove on TV, under test conditions, that cold reading works. I took on the challenge, and I used pure cold reading (and nothing else) to give someone a 20 minute reading, at the end of which she was independently interviewed (with no leading questions) and admitted that she was convinced I was psychic. She was even asked point blank: "Do you think there's any chance this was some sort of trick?". She said no.

Then I was challenged to prove it again, for another TV show. I did that too. And for a newspaper article. And for a magazine article. And for more Tv shows, here in the UK and in the States. I accepted every challenge I received to show, under test conditions, that cold reading works. I was asked to use my cold reading skills in the guise of an astrologer, a tarot reader, a clairvoyant and a spiritualist medium. I accepted every one of these challenges, on the understanding that the results would be broadcast whether I was successful or not. I passed every test with flying colours.

No-one else in the world has given as many test conditions demonstrations for the media as I have. No-one else has given as many demonstrations as I have covering different disciplines (astrology, tarot, clairvoyant and spiritualist medium being just the main four).

Then I discovered that within the magical community as a whole, there's no consensus about what constitutes exposure, and so rather than risk offending anyone in the trade I stopped having anything to do with these kinds of demonstrations, and I'll never do them again. This has been the situation since 2002 (despite at least a dozen offers).

Okay, so let's discount test conditions demonstrations. A few weeks ago I was out on the town with four other UK magicians and mentalists. We hit a night club bar and, just for fun, I started giving instant 'palm' readings to some of the women we met there. All the readings were successful, and sure enough having given a reading to one women in a given group, all the others wanted a reading too.

The techniques I use are the ones in my book, and the techniques in my book work in real life, test conditions or not. If someone wants to believe otherwise, that's fine. No loss to me.
www.ianrowland.com . Working Magic.
Gede Nibo
View Profile
Inner circle
2447 Posts

Profile of Gede Nibo
Ian
your book is a GEM for sure...I use it longside my own techniques, and its like the icing on the cake...thanx for you contributions to this dynamic field...

and Mota, great cold reading additions...
Osiris
View Profile
Special user
610 Posts

Profile of Osiris
Quote:
On 2005-03-17 18:35, Ian Rowland wrote:
Quote:
If you looking for one to one reading, I agree with Mota. Personnally, Full fact of cold reading by M. Ian Rowland doesn't work for the real work. It's just a cold reading for public demonstration writes by a magician for the magicians. For years I make readings regularly and If I had to use the techniques of Mr Rowland for one to one reading, I would fail, for sure. His techniques doesn't work for the real people

An interesting point of view. It's a shame it just doesn't jive with the facts. A long, long time ago, I was challenged to prove on TV, under test conditions, that cold reading works. I took on the challenge, and I used pure cold reading (and nothing else) to give someone a 20 minute reading, at the end of which she was independently interviewed (with no leading questions) and admitted that she was convinced I was psychic. She was even asked point blank: "Do you think there's any chance this was some sort of trick?". She said no.

Then I was challenged to prove it again, for another TV show. I did that too. And for a newspaper article. And for a magazine article. And for more Tv shows, here in the UK and in the States. I accepted every challenge I received to show, under test conditions, that cold reading works. I was asked to use my cold reading skills in the guise of an astrologer, a tarot reader, a clairvoyant and a spiritualist medium. I accepted every one of these challenges, on the understanding that the results would be broadcast whether I was successful or not. I passed every test with flying colours.

No-one else in the world has given as many test conditions demonstrations for the media as I have. No-one else has given as many demonstrations as I have covering different disciplines (astrology, tarot, clairvoyant and spiritualist medium being just the main four).

Then I discovered that within the magical community as a whole, there's no consensus about what constitutes exposure, and so rather than risk offending anyone in the trade I stopped having anything to do with these kinds of demonstrations, and I'll never do them again. This has been the situation since 2002 (despite at least a dozen offers).

Okay, so let's discount test conditions demonstrations. A few weeks ago I was out on the town with four other UK magicians and mentalists. We hit a night club bar and, just for fun, I started giving instant 'palm' readings to some of the women we met there. All the readings were successful, and sure enough having given a reading to one women in a given group, all the others wanted a reading too.

The techniques I use are the ones in my book, and the techniques in my book work in real life, test conditions or not. If someone wants to believe otherwise, that's fine. No loss to me.


But as I understand things (from a "insider") YOU got to pick the people used in the experiment.. .kind of like Lawyers when they stack a jury here in the states. You choose individuals that would more or less comply to your goals. I find it hilarious how so many "skeptics" find it perfectly fine to "cheat" on their side of the issue but slander anyone that would even think of such antics when the shoe is on the other foot.

It is well known Ian that I both, respect your contributions and loathe them... at least, a small segment of what you produced in the book. I refer of course to the Psychic Baiting and Bashing encouragement. Outside of this, the book is an excellent treatment that all should read and study. That said, I'll bring up two other sources yet mentioned (from what I've seen) in this list.

Bob Cassidy's Treatise on Cold Reading is, in my opinion, a MUST READ in that it takes a very hard look at the whole Forer Principle (Cold Reading) and rips it into little tiny shreads whilst extending positive merit where it is due. This kind of contrast is something rare in our industry and much needed in my opinon.

The other source is Philmone Vanderbeck's OORT publications -- get them all! If you want to know the legit systems as well as the con, this is the source!

Finally, Blair Robertson's form (www.mental-list.com/forum) is an excellent place to be introduced to tons of solid technique presented by individuals who do Reading work on a full time basis.

Let's put it this way... would you go to your Dentist to learn how build your new home?

Of course not!

So why are you asking MAGICIANS how to do Readings? Go to the people that actually do such things as their trade vs persons that attempt to mimic and assume what it's all about.

OH! One last thing and this is what 99% of any legit Reader is going to tell you (along side a few dozen Magicians/Mentalists I can think of off hand). Find a divination system that appeals to you and LEARN IT! Ignore all the psycho-mumbo-jumbo you've read here, in the magic books, etc. JUST LEARN A SYSTEM and use nothing but that "science" and your gut feelings. I can almost promise you a 90% + accuracy factor and a far more personable (vs. mechanical) rapport with your patrons.

Best of luck!
Alexander Marsh
View Profile
Inner circle
England
1190 Posts

Profile of Alexander Marsh
But what if you don't want to do readings in the 'normal' sence, i.e. 'sitter' sits down and you tell them all about them self, but what if you want to use cold (hot, warm, slightly fuzzy) reading to 'flesh out' a bit of mind reading.

Telling someone what letter they are thinking of in a word is all well and good but, if there thinking of a name of someone, you want to tell them about that person, there personality, how they relate, what there relationship is with them, what they look like.

What (cold reading) books would you recomend for this?
mota
View Profile
Inner circle
1658 Posts

Profile of mota
I understand why you are confused. The magician's mindset is "cold reading" is how it is all done, and any regular reading can be improved with these "tricks".

Just lay out the tarot and really read them...don't worry about getting it "right"...just describe what and who comes through on the cards (this is more problematic with palm readings).

It's been said here many times but I'll say it again...it is more trouble and less effective to fake a reading than it is to actually learn a system and do it.
enriqueenriquez
View Profile
Inner circle
New York
1287 Posts

Profile of enriqueenriquez
Quote:
On 2005-03-18 22:16, mota wrote:
It's been said here many times but I'll say it again...it is more trouble and less effective to fake a reading than it is to actually learn a system and do it.


I 100% agree...
Bambaladam
View Profile
Special user
636 Posts

Profile of Bambaladam
Quote:
On 2005-03-18 19:53, PsychoMagi wrote:
But what if you don't want to do readings in the 'normal' sence, i.e. 'sitter' sits down and you tell them all about them self, but what if you want to use cold (hot, warm, slightly fuzzy) reading to 'flesh out' a bit of mind reading.

Telling someone what letter they are thinking of in a word is all well and good but, if there thinking of a name of someone, you want to tell them about that person, there personality, how they relate, what there relationship is with them, what they look like.

What (cold reading) books would you recomend for this?


First read everything by CL.Boardé except Mainly Mental 2, then read the Q&A step in 13 steps, then the Full Facts book can be useful for this sort of thing.

BUT, a better way to learn to do this is to first do lots of readings using any of the sources I offered earlier. Alexander Thomas, Gene Anderson and Gene Nielsen have good ideas for these kinds of things.

/Bamba

/Bamba
Alexander Marsh
View Profile
Inner circle
England
1190 Posts

Profile of Alexander Marsh
Thanks Bamba, I have only dribs and drabs of info. about how to expand on a small iece of infomation. But Im looking to increse my knowledge, I shall look up your recomendations.

Thanks again,
Alex.
Osiris
View Profile
Special user
610 Posts

Profile of Osiris
Quote:
On 2005-03-18 19:53, PsychoMagi wrote:
But what if you don't want to do readings in the 'normal' sense, i.e. 'sitter' sits down and you tell them all about them self, but what if you want to use cold (hot, warm, slightly fuzzy) reading to 'flesh out' a bit of mind reading.



Actually you've just hit the proverbial nail upon the head... Fleshing Out an effect is what COLD READING is all about. Take a look at Cassidy's treatise on the Simplified Baker Billet Switch and you will see an entirely new way of using the techniques you are already familiar with, so as to transform a simple billet switch/CT into a "Miracle".

If I'm understanding you correctly, your interest lay more with performance vs. being a Reader and for this reason I will suggest a visit to Hades Publishing (on line) and getting EVERYTHING Rober Nelson put out but most especially his Answers to Questions series. Though dated, memorization of these retorts will arm you will material that can be quickly and easily woven into any spiel you find yourself addressing. Combine this with some of Herb Dewey's perspectives found in both Psycho-Babble and Red Hot Cold Readings and you will be more than armed... the only other resource I'd suggest you paruse would be the TRADECRAFT manuscript in that it lends to you some very interesting perspectives on statistics and how to use them as well as the Forer principle itself.

There is a MAJOR difference between being a "Reader" and being able to create the illusion of being an sensitive... the latter is a trick based on commonalities and rudimentary psychology. Do know that if you feature this kind of "insight" on stage, you will be asked time and again "if you do private Readings"... the lay audience, no matter how much you tell them you're a magician doing tricks, won't believe you (ask Banachek, he can tell you how often people come to him seeking his services as an obviously "gifted" guru.) There are ways to side-step this situation but on the other hand, most of those founding forefathers of Mentalism simply exploited them so as to bring more cash into the coffers... Nelson was one of the more ruthless when it came to such tactics. The short story being, you will eventually want to learn how to do legit Readings. Contrary to the horse pucky put forth by skeptics and magic buffs alike, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE between the two actions.

Best of luck!
Ian Rowland
View Profile
Special user
London
876 Posts

Profile of Ian Rowland
Quote:
On 2005-03-18 11:00, Osiris wrote:
But as I understand things (from a "insider") YOU got to pick the people used in the experiment.. .kind of like Lawyers when they stack a jury here in the states. You choose individuals that would more or less comply to your goals. / and loathe them... at least, a small segment of what you produced in the book. I refer of course to the Psychic Baiting and Bashing encouragement.


Osiris, you are incorrect and misinformed regarding the test conditions demonstrations of cold reading I have given for the media. Please don't libel me or mis-state things about me.

I state categorically and for the record that I didn't choose any of the people to whom I gave readings for these demonstrations, and that I never knew anything about these people in advance. In fact I have never had any influence on the choice of subjects at all. The only exception to this is that for some of the media demonstrations I was allowed to suggest that the subjects should be female aged between 18 and 60, simply because these are the commonest clients that psychics get, so if the aim is to do a like-for-like test then it's a sensible suggestion.

You say you have an 'insider source' with information to the contrary? Well, this source is either honestly mistaken, or just wrong, or spreading falsehoods. And in any case which of the demonstrations I've given does this 'insider' claim to know about? The ones I did for TV, or the press, in the UK or in the US, one of them or a few...?

I'm happy to state what I know to be true here on this public forum under my real name. Let your 'insider' source do the same. Anyone can take snide shots from the shadows, afraid to show their face because they can't back up what their inaccurate claims. I suggest you either produce some evidence or offer me a public apology. My guess is that you'll do neither. Just another drive-by insult, not based on any facts at all.

As for the 'psychic baiting' section in the book, let me explain. The way to read that section is, "If you are going to give readings, here's the one technique in the world that can derail you and ANY psychic reading, no matter how good you are at giving readings, so you need to know about it in advance to make sure you don't get caught". That's what it's about, and that's why I describe it the way I do. I figured anyone who wanted to know how cold readig works should know about the technique I describe in that sectio.

I took a chance that most of my readers, at least the ones who are switched on to my style and the way I sometmes write, would understand it that way. When I wrote in the book that "here's a great new sport (called 'psychic baiting') that the whole world should take up"... I figured people would be smart enough to realise that this was a humorous touch, not a serious intention or hope. I didn't REALLY think people around the world were going to take up 'psychic baiting' as a sport. It seems that perhaps I should have spelled this out.
www.ianrowland.com . Working Magic.
RonL
View Profile
New user
Bronx, NY,USA
2 Posts

Profile of RonL
Please don't laugh, but I have been trying to get the knack of Cold Reading for a long time, and have read every one of these posts with great interest.
Could anyone assist me in obtaining a few of the resources discussed here? Where could Doug Dyment's Cold Reading Flashcards be found? Where could one find Herb Dewey's "Psychobabble"? Any advice or assistance would be sincerely appreciated.
Best,
RonL
Midnight333
View Profile
Veteran user
353 Posts

Profile of Midnight333
Man, I started this topic like a billion years ago. I win! It just keeps popping up.
Bambaladam
View Profile
Special user
636 Posts

Profile of Bambaladam
Doug's Cold Front cards (which I whole-heartedly recommend) are available from him at http://www.deceptionary.com

/Bamba
ssucahyo
View Profile
Inner circle
1947 Posts

Profile of ssucahyo
I think WONDER READINGS FROM Kenton Knepper is good. It comes with cassetes.
kamus
View Profile
Veteran user
Silver Spring, Md
369 Posts

Profile of kamus
Ian's book gets a very high recommendation from Derren Brown in the back of "Pure Effect". I think that Derren's opinion is hardly ill informed.

Some of the commentary here seems a little along the lines of "I'm a real cold reader and you're not". Cold reading is a technique-one peculiarly fused to the personality of the reader (and the client of course). It's impossible to judge from a book how well a person would do readings in a real world situation so lets sling arrows unless you've had or witnessed a reading from the object of your derision. Perhaps Ian's techniques may not jibe with performer X but that's not reason enough to claim they have no validity for others or are not potent techniques in Ian's hands. I haven't seen Ian read, but I have no doubt that they're very effective based on the dedication and professionalism he brings to all his work. Let's be clear- in Cold Reading, there are many styles and techniques- let's not get hung up on who has the "best" techniques. Each reader must discover what works for their personality/style/approach.

I also don't appreciate people here disparaging magicians as living in a fantasy world vis a vis readings. Perhaps some are, but lets not get involved in class warfare-that's petty. I am a close up magician who also does readings-I keep them separate, but I think that my background in magic informs my reading and vice versa. Mota's comments smack of arrogance and he offers little specific as to why Ian's book is of little value. I think it is wothwhile to read everything on the subject if you're serious about being good at this-it's not like there is an infinite number of resources. Read them all, including Ian's book- there's no way you won't learn from all of them

Just my .02

David Kane
il illegetimi est non carborundum

http://www.davidkanemusic.com
mota
View Profile
Inner circle
1658 Posts

Profile of mota
There is a significant difference between arrogance and fact...specifically, Ian "the exposer" Rowland's book is a very well done rehash of the fantasy of cold reading that magician's wrongfully think is how good readings are done. In an earlier post I mention how one performer, using these techniques, claimed about a fifty percent hit rate and thought that was great...I think that's tossing a coin. It's also a fact that someone using his techniques only claimed fifty percent success.

I seem to be about the only one still here that think it is fifty bucks trashed and the thin-skinned can't seem to accept that there isn't universal worship. If you are in the "it's a trick" mindset, then Rowland's book is quite good. You can bet he loves this ongoing discussion...I've probably sold many books for him by keeping this post active.

Amazingly, there are a few people actually doing readings who agree with me, but by some amazing coincidence, they have been banned from this forum...oh, well. (To be fair, at least one British ex-patriot, living in Canada, gave them good reason, but there are others...this place doesn't seem real open to disagreement).

Read everything? Nice truism... Still, look at the recommendations and notice they are all magicians, with a magicians mindset. I'm going to listen to what Derren Brown says about stage performing and making a successful mentalism show...but other than being a guru for magicians to worship, I'm not sure he has any credentials for readings...oh, my bad, he is a successful mentalist which makes him an expert in everything related...not.

It's a mind trap...buried within the credits you would find my name on a few of Herb Dewey's books, as well as publications from Lee Earle. But the years have taught me that "cold reading" is a poor substitute for actually reading and learning a system. Lee Earle's inexpensive cold reading tapes (that dates me, I guess those are on CD now) will teach you a stock reading that works well initially, and if you never have to do more then you would be fine. Once they start asking for more, you quickly find out the severe limitations of cold reading.

I'd give you specifics, but I would get censored...not kissing up is frowned upon here. Suffice to say Rowland's book is a good cold reading book, probably as good as any cold reading book and more organized and better thought out than most I've seen...but that's as far as it goes. It is still a book on a magician's fantasy.

Waiting patiently to be edited and censored, I remain yours truly...

One person in a message asked me am I on Rowland's side and secretly keeping this thread going to sell more books...nope. But that's probably what's happening...oh, well.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Best cold reading book (1 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.25 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL