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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » Magic Café - Where are the other 16,019 members? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tiki
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Loyal user
Northwest Arkansas, USA
247 Posts

Profile of Tiki
I just noticed that this site claims to have 16,669 registered members. I have never seen more than 50 members "currently browsing in the Café." Is the counter broken or where are the other 16,019 members? What gives?

Has anybody ever seen 100 or 200 members "currently browsing the Café"?

I realize that not all members remain active and that not all members use the Café at the same time. That said, I don't think these two facts account for the discrepency between these stated numbers.

Any thoughts from members or Café staff?

Cheers,

Tiki
Glenn Watson
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Special user
755 Posts

Profile of Glenn Watson
That is a good point.On a busy day you would expect at least 10% of the members to be viewing. 160 would be 1% and I don't remember seeing even that many.
Kevin Ridgeway
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V.I.P.
Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ
1830 Posts

Profile of Kevin Ridgeway
I think the day after Criss Angel's first special October 2002 there were like 183 people in here. That is the most I have ever seen. maybe one of the staff members can correct me if I am wrong.

Kevin
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Curmudgeon
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Loyal user
Iowa
246 Posts

Profile of Curmudgeon
I remember quite a few Derren Brown junkies registering during his visit as well so that inflated the counter I am sure.
ekozuch
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Veteran user
argentina
329 Posts

Profile of ekozuch
I do not see any thing strange in the quantity of peoples, I mean, if someone stay around 10 minutes , and you see 75 peoples everytimne you log in, there are aproximatelly 450 peoples browsing the forum each hour, so 24 x 450 peoples: 10800 peoples/day.
Dennis Michael
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Inner circle
Southern, NJ
6018 Posts

Profile of Dennis Michael
Look at the membership file and sort by posts. There are a lot of members posting.

There are also a lot of readers....

This Thanksgiving, the number was in the 90's.

I'm glad not that many are on at the same time. With 90, everything slows down significantly, enough for me to leave because of the bottleneck.
Dennis Michael
Tiki
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Loyal user
Northwest Arkansas, USA
247 Posts

Profile of Tiki
I saw 92 members on the Café at the same time yesterday. A record, at least for me. Still, 92 is only slightly more than one half of one percent or 0.05% or the claimed membership. Is this limited use typical of forums such as these?
Cheers,

Tiki
Micheal Leath
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Inner circle
1046 Posts

Profile of Micheal Leath
Well, you have to remember that some people may be registered under more than one name, some have been banned, and some may have registered then not posted or just made a few post. I wonder what the actual number of active users is?

Posted: Dec 11, 2004 3:23am
---------------------------------------
I just looked at the first 3 pages of the members list and I counted 41 of 90 members listed there have a post count of 0-10 and they all joined 3 years ago.
blindbo
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Special user
Bucks County, PA
790 Posts

Profile of blindbo
Board activity cannot accurately be measured by the member posts. This is because it isn't mandatory to log in in order to view the board (except if you want access to special areas).

However, based on the member posts, there are:
8,043 members with ZERO posts
3,666 members with less than 10 posts
1,414 members with greater than 100 posts

I think it is a fair statement to say the zero posts are not active at all. A good percentage of those less than ten are most likely gone too.

A pretty safe claim would be around 1500 active members. Of course, Gene might chime in and tell us how many hits per day to the entance page by unique IP's...
DamienT98
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Regular user
London UK now live in Austin Tx
180 Posts

Profile of DamienT98
I've noticed the number of online members always seems to be between 60-70 members online, but never really noted it each time...
Steve Brooks
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Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4745 Posts

Profile of Steve Brooks
Tiki says; "I just noticed that this site claims to have 16,669 registered members. I have never seen more than 50 members "currently browsing in the Café." Is the counter broken or where are the other 16,019 members? What gives?"

I don't claim anything, it just happens to be the number of folks who have actually registered over the years, simple as that. You make it sound like a conspiracy or something, geez. The software continues to add folks as they register, which is exactly the way ANY message board works on the net.

Tiki says; "Has anybody ever seen 100 or 200 members "currently browsing the Café"?

I realize that not all members remain active and that not all members use the Café at the same time. That said, I don't think these two facts account for the discrepency between these stated numbers
"

Sorry, no discrepency, nor have we tried to be dishonest. Facts are facts. Whether or not every member who has ever registered is still active or logs on each day is another matter and certainly nothing that I can personally control.

Having said that, the most I have ever seen on line is 215. Naturally, the number shown does NOT show all the lurkers (un-registered) people who are here each day, and there are a lot of those. Also, whatever number shown each day does NOT mean it's always the exact same people. But still, who cares? I don't see WHY it matters. You might as well go to every board on the net and ask the same questions.

I guess I just hate the word CLAIM. It implies deceit, and that is something we are NOT doing here. Part of the function of our software is to continually add the number of members, and since we get an average of at least ten (10) or so NEW members each day, the amount rises and rises. The same is true of the other boards.

I will say that the majority of our members are actually magicians or those who are learning the craft and that's a great thing. Also, considering we do NOT advertise on national television (like Ellusionist does), our membership is pretty darn impressive. The best part is most of the folks here are good people who are willing to help and share their time with others. True, we do get idiots from time to time, but that is to be expected and we deal with those folks as quickly as possible.

I hope I have answered any questions you may have had, although I'm not sure how relevant the information really is. Thanks for listening. Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
Bill Palmer
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Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24262 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
I don't know what would give anyone the idea that any particular percentage of the registered membership of any forum would be browsing it at any given time. Is there some "forum handbook" that states that in order for a forum to have a valid identity that 10% of its members should be on board at all times? I don't think so.

I am the administrator of another forum. We have more than 1200 registered users. The most we have ever had on line at any one time is 34. Now, I can give you some insight into some of that. There are groups of people who register and never post. There are people who join forums for nefarious purposes that have nothing at all to do with magic.

And sometimes an administrator has to know how to handle things that the membership doesn't need to know about.

The Magic Café is really the best of the general magic forums around. I spend more time here than I should. And I'm really glad that we never have 10% of the membership on line at a time. That would be very difficult to deal with!
"The Swatter"

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R2
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Special user
935 Posts

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Mark Lewis can probably account for more than half of the registered users.
Steve Brooks has banned him many times, but finally agreed to let him remain as Dr. Jekyll, inspite of his malicious words. I guess that's how he deals with as he calls them idiots?
Tiki
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Loyal user
Northwest Arkansas, USA
247 Posts

Profile of Tiki
All that aside, doesn't it seem strange that over half of the "registered" members have never posted? Especially given the fact that one does not have to register to view the forum, it seems strange that the forum would have over 8,000 members that took the time to register but never bothered to post. It also seems strange that the highest reported number of simultaneous members logged in to the forum is less than one tenth of one percent (<.01%) of the claimed membership.

I agree with Bill Palmer that the Magic Café is a fine magic forum. I just think the number of members has been exaggerated or is otherwise in error.

Cheers,

Tiki
Tiki
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Loyal user
Northwest Arkansas, USA
247 Posts

Profile of Tiki
Steve Brooks -

After my last post, I just noticed your reply. I am not suggesting a conspiracy, and used the word "claimed" in only a skeptical sense, not an accusative one. No offense intended. I still think that there may be a problem with the counter, as the numbers still don't make sense to me. Could the counter be counting lurkers rather than actual members?

Finally, I don't think this thread "matters" in any cosmic sense, but I suspect it is at least as interesting and relevant as the debate raging over the merits of blue vs. red backed decks. Mostly, it is simply my curiousity. Again, I like the Magic Café and hope it continues to grow.

Cheers,

Tiki
Rob Johnston
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Inner circle
Utah
2060 Posts

Profile of Rob Johnston
I think they gotta clean the rolls and only count the people that actually post.

That would make finding someone a lot easier.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
Steve Brooks
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Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4745 Posts

Profile of Steve Brooks
Tiki said; "All that aside, doesn't it seem strange that over half of the "registered" members have never posted? Especially given the fact that one does not have to register to view the forum, it seems strange that the forum would have over 8,000 members that took the time to register but never bothered to post. It also seems strange that the highest reported number of simultaneous members logged in to the forum is less than one tenth of one percent (<.01%) of the claimed membership"

Seems strange? As compared to WHAT? Other magic forums? I'm not trying to sound negative or defensive, I'm just trying to understand your logic, that's all.

Tiki said; "I agree with Bill Palmer that the Magic Café is a fine magic forum. I just think the number of members has been exaggerated or is otherwise in error"

Sorry, not in error and the number has NOT been exaggerated. As I write this I see:
74 members are currently browsing the Café.
We now have 16,402 registered members, who have posted 733,758 messages.
No exaggeration here, just what is currently happening on The Magic Café. Naturally you are free to think anything you like, I'm just presenting the reality of the situation, that's all.

Rob Johnston said; "I think they gotta clean the rolls and only count the people that actually post"

When that is the industry standard and ALL the other magic forums do this, I would be happy to comply. Until such time, we are doing NOTHING different then the other forums do, in so far as our membership numbers and traffic stats are concerned. Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
True-Gossiper
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New user
Gaia
27 Posts

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There are usually people with multiple accounts. Probably because they forgot their old account/password.
"I was the future.." TG, 2006
Mary B.
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Café Tech Advisor
Howard City, Michigan
626 Posts

Profile of Mary B.
Tiki, the numbers are neither exaggerated nor in error. When someone registers, their information is put into a record in the database. The number of registered members that shows at the top of the page is simply a count of how many registered members are listed in the database. Truth be told, the count would normally be higher than it is, since some registered members have been completely deleted from the database in the past for administrative reasons.

The number of members online is also a simple database count. When a member logs in, a temporary entry is made to the database. Those entries are counted as the number of members currently online. There is no manipulating done to these entries to artificially inflate or deflate the numbers; they are what they are.

None of the "stats" numbers have anything at all to do with how active or inactive the members are, except, of course, the number of posts noted above. That number is also a simple database count of the entries in the table containing the post records.

In short, what goes in is what comes out. The numbers you see in the stats block above are current counts of the number of entries in the database for that particular item, nothing more. Administrative/moderator actions, such as deleting posts, deleting members, and the like can reduce the counts, but to increase the counts, actual, valid entries must be made.

It's absurd to think that I have either the time or the inclination to "exaggerate" or otherwise manipulate these figures. They often change from minute to minute, and it would be ridiculous for me to spend the time required to artificially manipulate them, even if there were some good reason to do so.
BlackShadow
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Special user
London UK
666 Posts

Profile of BlackShadow
I'm admin of two other largish (non-magic) sites and use internet message boards a lot. It's quite a common feature that half or more of the members have zero posts. People often sign up while they are surfing and then never pass that way again. Or they register an account and decide they want a different user name so effectively the first account is dead.

I'd say Blindbo's assessment is pretty typical. Half the members having zero posts and active membership is only 10% of the registered is common. Also many people have permanent connections and leave themselves logged on so there is a baseload of users on line who aren't actually here.

I don't think Magic Café have exaggerated their numbers. They can only quote the number of people who register without spending ages going through unique ips and server logs to discover exactly what is happening. But it is a general trend that these message board sites are like icebergs in reverse. A lot shows above the surface but the activity is smaller than you might think. This is also true of very old threads. Some of the people who posted in those will be lapsed members who won't return. A useful archive though.

And even if there are only 1 or 2 thousand current thoroughly active members, that's still going to make for plenty of interest and conversation.
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