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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Never, ever trade instructional magic manuscripts and Videos!!! » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jaxon
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Inner circle
Kalamazoo, Mi.
2537 Posts

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I was just thinking about something. When you read this please don't take it in a negative or "finger pointing" way. Just consider it.

Imagine you had a good trick to market and it's something that can be marketed digitally. Or what if I or someone else invented one and gave it or sold the rights to you and said, "It's yours. Do what you want with it. Market it and you can keep 100% of the profit you make from it." It's better to think about this question with it being your own creation but either way. You now own the effect.

Now, I know some of you will probably say you wouldn't market it digitally but for the sake of this discussion let's assume that's the best way to make it available (bare with me here). Also assume that this is a good effect and once it's out it gets great reviews. I'm not talking about a piece of junk. It's a good one.

Imagine you sold quite a few of these then you find out someone is selling copies of it. Or trading it for other effects. This other person has sold or traded maybe 20 copies or more.

It's not a car, it's not a prop, it's not a book. It's an instructional video or an E-book of some kind. Please don't compare this example to those things because they are different.

Honestly now. How would you feel? Would you feel like you are being robbed? Would you ask the person who is trading it not to do so if you had the chance? Would you explain to the person who is reselling copies why you hope they won't continue to do so?

Or, what if it was your friends effect that was being traded or resold. Would you want to tell them about it?

I just hope to break through the comparison that seems to be going on here. We're not talking about props or physical objects here. It's digital information and it's a fairly new thing. What I suggest is to realise taht picking up this digital file is a gamble. If you end up not liking the effect understand that this might be the case before clicking that buy now button. We're struggling to make it a good and safe method of doing business and as others have mentioned, magic isn't the only field trying to work it out. Until that time. It's up to us costumers to do the right thing.


BTW - I have an old set of linking rings here I never use. Anyone want to trade me a set of lecture notes for them? I have a list of notes I hope to pick up sometime and I can Email that list to you to see if you have any of them to trade for my set of rings. Smile (See how wrong this is?)

Ron Jaxon
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After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
Heinz Weber
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New user
Austria
83 Posts

Profile of Heinz Weber
@ jaxon, calexa:

I think I have provoked the ethics and law – thing, so let me make some short comments on it.

Jaxon wrote:
‘I think there is a huge difference between ethics and Law. In a perfect world laws would be to protect people but in all honesty law has hurt a great many people. I'm not saying that this is always the case. My point is that good people can make mistakes. This doesn't mean they shouldn't pay for their mistakes, but a mistake doesn't make a person unethical.’

My point of view:
It’s not the goal of laws to protect people. There are laws to secure peace, sometimes to establish peace. In nearly every single case there is one person who is protected against another person. It’s also not the goal to protect the weak, laws are there to protect justice (whatever that means), and to prevent violence.

And calexa wrote:
‘Believe me, there is a difference between law and ethics.....’

I think laws are written ethics, and are established in a democratic manner, so they reflect the ethics of the majority at least. In almost all developed countries experts are involved in the process of making laws, so there is a good chance that one can find more logic in the laws than in some ‘justice from the stomach’ as often mentioned by some fellow citizens, and sometimes published in the mass media.

In most cases ethics are more common than one would think. All the examples by Josh Riel (Mar 8) show it: It may be common behaviour, but there is hardly anybody who thinks it is right to take cash out of the register, to do all these things. It’s against ethics, and it’s of course against the law. So there is no real difference…

Heinz

It’s off topic, it’s not even magical, so I think we have to close our discussion about ethics and law. Is there another forum where we can go further about this? Is anyone interested?
Dave V
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Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
4825 Posts

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Jaxon,
What did you do to protect yourself? Did you use a digital watermark? Was the file encrypted? Were there unique serial numbers that were tied to the original purchaser? Were they required to register it with you or download a certificate to open the file? If not, why not???

It's unfortunate, but with current technology it's inevitable that copying will occur. Your original question was one of trading. To me, I can sell or trade my one "authorized copy" (there's that phrase again) to anyone I please, transferring the official ownership with it.

Now the conversation has expanded away from trading and into piracy; selling multiple copies of a single purchase. That's an entirely different matter altogether.

I have a "hard copy" book that's currently being sold by Denny and Lee's. Except for the custom card deck that comes with it, it would be quite easy to make this into an electronic document. But they didn't. The protection I have is that photocopies are a hassle, and they look copied. It's usually quite easy to detect a copy from the original. There are at least two versions of my effect also on the market. Although they are virtually identical, and came after mine, the "product" was different. Different packaging, different routining, etc... There's no way that anyone would mistake theirs for mine. But the ethics of adapting and reproducing someone else's work is better left for another day.

Electronic media hasn't progressed yet to the level that the casual user can discern "originals" from "copies" but the mechanisms are there. Digital watermarking is available. Any copies of the file are "tagged" as unauthorized copies, if they can be copied at all.

My son brought home a DVD that was "ripped" by a friend. Yes, it played but the usual warning had changed to tell us that this was a copy and not the original and the producers hoped that if it wasn't copied for archival reasons that the new owners would "do the right thing" and buy the original at their earliest convenience.

It's a cruel world out there, and you have to know what you're up against, and be prepared for it.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Gede Nibo
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Inner circle
2447 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-03-05 12:12, Jaxon wrote:

A digital file such as a PDF is different though. If I make one and sell it to 50 people. Then there are now 50 authorized copies of that file out there. If any one of them who picked it up trades it with someone then they are profiting off someone else's work and creation.

Ron Jaxon


I think the authors shouldve considered this o'er again before CHOOSING to sell it in this manner...
and take note to the thread that reads "tricks for sale and trade"...whats the difference between this and e-books? a method is traded, whether a book or otherwise is clearly not the point...

'tis the nature of the beast...no matter what, it will continue...people's morals etc. differ according to their perception of the world...

and lets make a thread for all those pieces of **** we bought, after reading a very misleading description on the trick...THEY are just as guilty, if guilt is the issue here.

Baba
Jaxon
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Inner circle
Kalamazoo, Mi.
2537 Posts

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I'm not really worried about this for myself anymore. I now sell my trick with pre-made gimmicks so the PDF sales went down. So I'm not really worried about that anymore. I learned my lesson and that is that there are people out there who feel it's okay to resell or trade them. So the next thing I market that is in a manuscript or video form I'll just use the mail. At least until a more secure digital method is available.

Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
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