Ok who has the best chop cup, two cup and three cup routine...?

Nobody. It all depends on the performer, not the routine.

If you want a place to start, get the Michael Ammar DVD's and book.

Then read the threads on this forum to guide you along.

Bill is correct about the Ammar DVD's and book. There are two DVD's that bring you from the basics to the "kool" moves. The first DVD also has historic information about the C & B's.

The second DVD deals with a myriad of routines to learn and assimilate.

Another DVD that is very valuable and lets you be the judge between four well-known Cups and Balls men is produced by The Greater Magic Video Library. It features Charlie Miller (with Johnny Thompson), Johnny Paul, Mike Rogers and Mike Ammar. It is simply called Cups and Balls.

It's no longer possible to get the Glenn Bishop DVD, but you might find someone willing to give theirs up (or let you view it). But you might still find a clip of Glenn performing the cups & balls on his website. Bill Palmer (I think) called it something of the best of Vernon's and -- and -- someone I can't remember...

Another, unique (really different) version is Dan Turcotte's. He's at http://www.youdomagic.com -- look up the "In Your Hands Cups & Balls" routine on that site.

*jeep!

Paul Daniels has IMHO by miles the best Chop Cup Routine.

He has a DVD out of his Edinburgh show with it on.
Check HERE http://www.the-magic-store.com/shop/product.asp?sp=798

Andy

Paul's is good, but it's basically one of Ken Brooke's routines, with a few added touches. And that's what I mean by "the performer making the difference."

I've seen Paul Kozak knock an audience for a loop with his chop cup routine.

Don Alan's routine is also one of the better basic ones.

Tommy Wonder's two cup routine--a thing of beauty.

Not to forget David Williamson's Two Cup routine. When you decide to practice it, however, you should think really hard about whether you could not achieve greater economy of movement in certain sequences. In my opinion, there is way too much shifting the cups from hand to hand in the final load sequence. Otherwise the routine is a thing of beauty. And Williamson's handling of the small ball vanishes as well as his pinky palm are excellent. The pinky palm as well as its application in vanishes are largely neglected in Ammar's book (I haven't watched the DVDs, though - perhaps someone could post whether Ammar teaches it there). So watching Williamson's cups and balls on 'Sleights of Dave' will be a good way of supplementing the teaching provided by Ammar's material.

PS: I guess this is a thread where many things said elsewhere will be posted again...

It's too bad that David Williamson's only recorded performance for laypeople(and even that is a stretch in this) is from WGM. And that one is really more jazzing than structured. other than that, the "Sleight of Dave" performance is a more clinical, studio one, devoid of the intermittent reactions that he must invoke.

But the routine is fantastic. It would help to be a madman while performing it, however. The man has amazing hands.

Yes, perhaps I should have said that my remark about the final load sequence referred only to the version published in Williamson's Wonders and to the performance on Sleight of Dave. I am aware of the fact that he improvises a lot and I am sure that Williamson does an excellent job at adapting his routine to the performance situation at hand.

The best three cups and balls routines that I have seen live are... Jim Ryan doing his cups and balls routine. He used sponge balls and it was an easier way to do Irlands cups and balls.

Dai Vernon doing his cups and balls. I saw him do this at a lecture including his wand spin with one of the load balls. That was real magic.

And Terry Vecky do his cups and balls and he loaded pool balls...

The best two chop cups - David Roth - I saw him do it at a lecture. This is the routine I use and have been using over 15 years.

And Don Alans - This routine is great because it gets to the ending and the climax very fast. As with most of Don's effects. He used to say - socko magic...

As I see it for the lay audience many cups and balls routines are to long. There is the same problem with the shell game. Audiences have shorter and shorter attention spans nowdays.

Just some thoughts...

I don't think there is a best routine but I agree that you should buy the Michael Ammar DVD's and books.

I agree with Bill too but wht I was asking was for opinions about ones that you have seen not for the standard or anything like that, for me chop cup wise I love chris hanable's potatoe chip can routine its wonderful for laypeople I've seen the reaction it gets, for wo cup I like tommy wonder for pure magic, and David williamson for pure entertainment, as for three cup routines I like Vernons, it just seems to be simple and magical with out a lot of fluff

Again, it's not the routine. It's the performer.

For example, take Bob Read's Penultimate Cups and Balls Routine. It's out of print, but it comes up regularly on eBay. That's a heck of a routine. It's the Vernon routine with three unmatched cups and a comedy ending that will knock you out. But it won't work as written over here, simply because of the patter.

My routine for the chop cup is very strong. But I doubt that it would work for anyone else. It's too personal.

My advice to anyone looking for a cups and balls routine is to get EVERYTHING you can find on the cups and balls -- DVD's, books, etc. Then watch and read. You will get ideas from each thing you read and see.

Then put your own routine together.

Al Schneider's routine is excellent, if you are seated at a table. If you don't have that luxury, then you may need a different routine. But there are things in that routine that are worth knowing.

Dan Fleshman has some insights into the cups and balls that made his set of DVD's worth buying for me.

It's like asking "what's the best car?"

That depends on where you are driving. Certainly the Rolls is the best, unless you need four wheel drive. Then you might want a Hummer.

Clearly Jason Latimer's routine is the best. He just hasn't published it yet.

Bill,

I think you had a typo when you wrote, "Clearly Jason Latimer's routine is the best."

It should read:

Jason Latimer's "Clearly" routine is the best.

It's called a pun.

Don Alan's Chop Cup Routine
Tommy Wonder's Two Cup Routine
Mendoza's Combo Cups and Ball Routine for the wonderful choreography.

Peace,

Rannie

Bill is totally right. What works for one person may not work for another. All of the performers mentioned are true masters of c&b. Three that I'm fond of were not mentioned. Johnny Thompson, Ricky Jay, and John Schyrock. Johnny and Ricky present the routine as a history lesson of cups and balls. John has a fantastic routine which is set to music. Check out his DVD if you haven't seen it yet.

I'm collecting new material all the time. I saw Manuel Muerte's two cup routine. At the time, I thought it was great. It is great for him, but it's not my cup of whatever. Beanie Weenie is a great routine for the right person and the right audience, but I'm not that person.

Tommy Wonder's routine is great, for him. But it's not my favorite. I'm still tracking down my favorite routine. When I find it, I'll perform it for you!

I'm taking the Vernon routine with some minor changes and will be using the C&Bs to demonstrate the need for cycle counting for inventory control. I'll be speaking to a local chapter of purchasing professionals. I think the fun of the routine combined with a unique patter targetting the purchasing professionals will work well. But in front of any other audience, the patter will fall flat.