The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Fees for Kids shows Regional and country variations » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
p.b.jones
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

Profile of p.b.jones
Quote:
"I think the area must be taken into consideration. At least when it comes to the fees for childrens parties, the amount of money you can get in the US feels like an insult to me in Sweden, since you get so much more. I have said it before, and I say it again: It seems to be easy to make a living from magic in the US...

Mikael "

Mikeal I know very little about you, How well known you are in Sweden ext. But are you amongst the top paid childrens magicians in Sweden?

Phillip
Mikael Eriksson
View Profile
Inner circle
None of your business
1064 Posts

Profile of Mikael Eriksson
No, I´m neither famous nor top paid, but I have noticed from experience where the limit goes for parents to pay for entertainment, both what they have said to me, and what they have said to others. And it seems that it does not matter how good the performer is, if the parents don´t have $200 it doesn´t matter if it is Mikael Eriksson or David Copperfield Smile
I have noticed that the average amount that American magicians performing at children's parties mention is an amount of money that Swedish parents just can´t come up with, or think is worth paying.

My reasoning is this: Better get a job for $50 than not getting it for $100.

Undoubtedly there are magicians in Sweden that manage to get $100 for a kid show, but it´s rare, and it might be in Stockholm where people seem to have more money.

Mikael
p.b.jones
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

Profile of p.b.jones
Hi,
How does the fees compare percentage wise
average family income to average kid show fee?

We need a few US residents to reply here too
so that we can compare

Here in the Uk (not london) fees Run from £75.00 ($120.00) for an hour show there are a few that really charge a lot less and those of us who charge a fair bit more, but I think this is about average. reallisticaly I would put the average weekly income of a normal working family (2 working) at about £500.00 a week total (both wages combined) again this is hard to work out with any accuracy
Phillip
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Here in the Pacific Northwest, I charge $150.00-$200.00 for a half hour magic show. And like usual there are those who charge more and those who charge less. But that is what I charge and I get as much work as I want.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
COINAMGIC
View Profile
New user
26 Posts

Profile of COINAMGIC
well here in Canada eh! I charge usually a buck a min.
coins n' card there all good
Adam V
View Profile
Special user
603 Posts

Profile of Adam V
Quote:
My reasoning is this: Better get a job for $50 than not getting it for $100.


Not so sure about that. Sometimes it's better to turn down a gig and lose a bit of money than become known as the magician who's only worth $50. Regardless of how good you are, if you charge $50 people will consider you to be a $50 magician and if a guy comes along charging $100 they'll think he's better.
Adam V - 9 out of 10 dentists recommend him.
Peter Marucci
View Profile
Inner circle
5389 Posts

Profile of Peter Marucci
Mikael is quoted as saying: "It seems to be easy to make a living from magic in the US..."

It is? Smile

Hey, if it were EASY, then everybody would be doing it.

Remember, those magicians who tell you that they are making a six-figure income usually forget to mention that there is a decimal point involved! Smile
p.b.jones
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

Profile of p.b.jones
"I don´t know. I´m not sure it´s a good way of measuring either, because in Sweden we have several things that are more expensive than in the U.S. For example, our food is more expensive, our gasoline is more expensive, so Swedish families might have less money left to use as they like."

HI,
Yes here in the U.K. food is more expensive too and our fuel is at a horendous price.
But although this may not be a very acurate way of looking at fees, I think it is more specific than quoting the average fees as this means nothing. If I got Just £1.00 for a show that's not bad if that's a weeks wages for most in my country! if you get my point.
Phillip

Payne,
What is the average (non magician) weekly income in your area please?

Are your fees average? I earn a bigger fee than quoted, but my fees are above average.
we are interested in average fees here for the moment at least
Phillip

Adam,
I have to say that I both agree and disagree with your statement charging $100.00 rather than $50.00 might make you better thought of. But, That’s unimportant if no one is willing to pay you $100.00. Even if they are you still might make more income charging $90.00. here is a simple example,

Let's say at $50.00 you do 500 shows per year that’s $25,000.00 per year

Charging $100.00 might drop you down to 300 shows that’s $30,000.00 per year

However charging £90.00 might bring in 400 shows that’s 36,0000 per year

The Important thing is to test the optimum fee to show bookings. And don’t forget the power of 7 a fee ending in 7 for Example $97.00 will nearly always out pull a fee of $90.00 or $100.00 by quite a large percentage. Also if you are in the U.S. where tipping is the norm they will probably tip the 3 dollars anyway

Phillip
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Here in the Seattle area the median family income is listed at 72,200. The magicians in my current social circle all charge about the same as I do and we are a combination of full time and part time pro's
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
p.b.jones
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

Profile of p.b.jones
Hi Payne,
I assume that's per year?
so that would be $1388.46er week

So 13% would be $180.00

and based on 13% for a half hour show here in the Uk £500.00 *13% =£65.00 is about the same as the rates here then roughly speaking.
How anout in Sweden Mikeal?
Any other countries?
Phillip
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Yes but here in the states we don't have to do Punch and Judy at the end of our show. Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Mikael Eriksson
View Profile
Inner circle
None of your business
1064 Posts

Profile of Mikael Eriksson
Quote:
On 2002-09-08 22:05, Adam V wrote:
Not so sure about that. Sometimes it's better to turn down a gig and lose a bit of money than become known as the magician who's only worth $50. Regardless of how good you are, if you charge $50 people will consider you to be a $50 magician and if a guy comes along charging $100 they'll think he's better.


Well Adam, that might be true if the norm is $100, but if the norm is $50... I know for a fact that the more expensive magicians are loosing kidshow jobs, because I have got them instead. My last job two days ago was for a guy that was one of the richest people I have worked for, and yet when I mentioned the price, I heard he hesitated for a second.

As long as it brings me money I´ll continue doing this. I´ll tell you what event gave me this philosophy.

Many years ago I was working in our capital. I went by a hotdog stand, and I wanted to buy a hotdog. I noticed that I had very little money, so I asked the man (an imigrant) selling the hotdogs:

-How much is one hotdog?

He replied:

-How much do you have?

I said:

-7 kronor...

He replied:

-Ketchup or mustard?



Now a swede would have said: -Then you can not have a hotdog, they cost 10 kronor.

But this was an imigrant, and he was smarter... because he let me have the hotdog for 7 kronor he might have earned 1 or 2 kronor, whereas if he had not let me have it he had earned nothing. AND the hotdog might have become destroyed from being in the water too long, and he would have lost money from that too. Smile

Mikael
p.b.jones
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

Profile of p.b.jones
Yes, but here in the states we don't have to do Punch and Judy at the end of our show

Hi,
Are you Joking? We do not have to do P@J either. Although I do offer it.

Forgetting the under fives for whom I would do a 30 mins spot (magic only)

I offer 2 sets of 3 packages-this increaces my average sale.

offer 1 show no breaks

1. 40 mins total showtime - magic show
2. 40 mins total showtime - magic & P&J
3. 1 hour total showtime - magic & P&J

offer 2 Full parties

1. 45 min games (break 30 mins for food and happy birthdays) Magic show 45 mins

2. 45 min games break 30 mins, 45 mins show magic and P&J

3. 45 min games break 30 mins, 1 hour show magic and P&J

This works well for me, as clients tend to spend what they can afford. This means an increase in my average sale and as I am in the same venues for longer-less time traveling from show to show.

Phillip


"But this was an imigrant, and he was smarter... because he let me have the hot dog for 7 kronor he might have earned 1 or 2 kronor, where-as if he had not let me have it he had earned nothing. AND the hot dog might have become destroyed from being in the water too long, and he would have lost money from that too."

Hi,
I do not know that he was smarter, you see the guy that stuck out for the $10.00 could likely afford to throw the dog away, where as the imigrant has now set a presedent for selling them cheap and selling for whatever is offered. I have been getting so much work for the last few years that this year I decided to increase the fees for my adult shows by 60% now people have always flinched at the old price and they still flinch at the increaced price. but I still have not had a noticable drop off in bookings (I thought I might). I am not saying that you are wrong Mikeal, But there are many caught up in the low fee trap. Just because they think that they will get no work or the market won't bear it.

Phillip Smile
Scott F. Guinn
View Profile
Inner circle
"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
6581 Posts

Profile of Scott F. Guinn
You need to decide what you are worth--what your time is worth. Figure the amount of time for the show itself, the travel time to and from, the time waiting for the kiddies to get settled so you can start, the time loading and unloading, both at home and at the show, the time setting up and packing up, the time waiting for the check, the cost of gas and wear and tear on your car, whether they are asking to book you during prime (weekend) times, etc. Typically, a 45 minute show, with the time it takes to pack up at your house until the time you return home and unpack, will be between 3 and 6 hours. That's without the cost of gas, etc. So your GROSS income (not NET profit) comes out to somewhere around $11 an hour. Deduct the cost of gasoline, etc, you're looking at more around the $10-$10.50 range for work that is not steady and has no benefits like paid vacation or medical insurance. I can work in a factory for a lot more than that, complete with benefits, and it's steady, guaranteed work, day in and day out.

If Magician A charges $200 per show and does 10 shows per month, he makes $2000. If Magician B charges $500 per show and does only 4 shows per month, he makes $2000! If B works at marketing better and adds only two more shows per month, he is working exactly half as much as A and making exactly half as much MORE money!

If you are perceived to be the $50 magician, that's all you'll make. If you're worried about losing a few shows, clients will sense that desperation. The one who is willing to walk away wins!

Yes, you will lose some shows--some shows where you make less than you would at a regular job when you figure your cost and time. If you don't value your show, neither will they! A bad show at $50 is a ripoff--a GREAT show at $500, if they feel they received value for their money is a bargain!

If you believe that $50 is all you can make or all the market will bear, that's all you'll ever get!

As far as it being EASY to make a living in magic in the US--I would wager the competition for the public's entertainment dollar is stiffer here than anywhere in the world!

I would recommend you stop buying magic tricks and books and start buying books on marketing, publicity, sales and promotion. The truly successful pros are NOT succesful because they're better magicians, but because they are better BUSINESSMEN! The biggest word in "Show Business" is "Business!"
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
Victor Brisbin
View Profile
Elite user
Washington, DC
432 Posts

Profile of Victor Brisbin
Peter made a good point. Magicians are notorious for claiming to make more than they do. Some are paid well, and some magicians rush to charge more than the market will bear, and then wonder why they don't get repeat shows.

The point is well taken that people in general perceive your worth based on your self-worth. Best wishes for success in a tough market - children's shows! (Factor in combat pay...) Smile
"It is better to practice a little than talk a lot." - Muso Kokushi
Mikael Eriksson
View Profile
Inner circle
None of your business
1064 Posts

Profile of Mikael Eriksson
Okay, I think many here have misunderstood me completely.

Scott.

Here are some facts:

1. In Sweden magician A would get 10 shows per month and make $2000, whereas magician B Would get 1 show and make $500. Therefore the one who is willing to walk away LOOSES!

2. In Sweden $50 is not the same as in the US. Not when it comes to what people think magic for CHILDREN are worth.

3. It has nothing to do with how I value my show. The person paying for the show does not care if I think my show is worth $5000, if he doesn´t think it is worth that much, and most important, if he CAN´T PAY that kind of money.

4. My clients are VERY satisfied. This is the norm when I perform.

5. Swedes are not interested in the same things as americans. Another example is Cold readings. In the US: An enormous interest, at least if I go by the posts here at the café. In Sweden: A very mild interest.

6. It might be true that "the competition for the public's entertainment dollar is stiffer than anywhere in the world in the US", but in the US I would be paid $200 instead of $50.

7. Buying books on marketing, publicity, sales and promotion would not do any good if the books are american, since again, things work differently in Sweden. I have read a lot of the material published about marketing for magicians and similar venues, and it´s next to worthless in Sweden. Why? Because some things described doesn´t even exist in Sweden, and if you did some of the stuff that exists, you would be considered mentally disturbed and get bad publicity, and so on. Unfortunately I have not come across any material in swedish.

8. I´m not trying to get more shows. I don´t even have to market myself. A good show is the best advertising, and word spread for free.

9. $50 is what I charge for a PRIVATE kids show. If it´s a corporation that wants me to perform I charge more.

Mikael
p.b.jones
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

Profile of p.b.jones
Mikael,
forget dollars for the moment as exchange rates vary . but in your currency how much do you get per show and what is the average combined family income in your locality?
Oh Yes and how long a performance is the fee for?

with regards your feelings about Marketing books not being applicable to your country,
I think this is just a case of needing to think outside of the box. Most marketing materials will work whatever the country or location. a lot of the books are specific to the US with regards venues IE Resteraunts but the principles can be applied accross the board. To be honest I think thee is better value in marketing materials outside of the Magician specific books. Jay Abrahams titles are superb for idea's for increacing your margins. Ted Nicholas has some great Direct mail Material, Paul Gorman in the UK has a great book available the title of which elludes me for the moment.
Peter Sun Has a couple of good titles.
I do not live in the US and I do not work resteraunts but I used the resteraunt info to book Holiday villages and I works a treat
Phillip
Mikael Eriksson
View Profile
Inner circle
None of your business
1064 Posts

Profile of Mikael Eriksson
I charge 500 kronor per show.

The average combined family income is 40600 kronor a month.

I do a 40 minutes show.

Mikael
Scott F. Guinn
View Profile
Inner circle
"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
6581 Posts

Profile of Scott F. Guinn
Listen, I'm not saying you should do everything I tell you--I'm simply offering some suggestions. However, you seem to be very resistant to anything anyone else has to say. You seem to have decided that $50 is what you should charge and all you can get. Therefore, $50 is probably all you should charge and all you will get.

I'm not sure what you want from us at this point.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
p.b.jones
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

Profile of p.b.jones
HI Mikael,
that works out at 9369.23 per week which means that your fee is about 5.5% of that which does appear to be low. how does your hourly rate pro rata (750 kronor)compare to say a soliciter or accountant? and what about a school teacher ? I am just trying to get a feel of where magicians are there on your countries social scale.
Phillip
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Fees for Kids shows Regional and country variations » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL