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Leo B. Domapias Loyal user 297 Posts |
I believe this so-called risk is minimal. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this recent phenomenon of marketing gurus proliferating overnight.
Leo Manila, Philippines |
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MagicalPirate Special user Shamokin, PA 828 Posts |
The money back guarantee always keeps coming back up. I stated my experience with that elusive little bugger. Personally I think he sums up his opinion about all this pretty much in his own words:
Quote:
Abra Freakin’ Cadabra Martin
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES http://www.docgrayson.com/ How To Sell Anything Online http://tub.bz/?r=1z Copyright to my own words retained 100%. |
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bsears Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 1040 Posts |
Wait. Dee actually put spelling mistakes in his ad? Intentionally? This is marketing genious?
What a scammer. This guy will say or do anything for a buck. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Bsears -
I wasn't his idea. It was from people like Dan Kennedy, etc. Other marketing gurus. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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bsears Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 1040 Posts |
Fine, but every business or marketing class I ever took advised the opposite. To each his own.
Oh..Got to stick up for DVA who has extensive marketing knowledge and who points out corectly that one size does NOT fit all. I think its amazing that people think that Dee's pre-made letters are worth the money. Fill-in-the-blanks marketing. Lame. |
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Zack Special user 551 Posts |
Can you state precisely, what about them will cost you bookings??
re: Mispellings, its been borne out by studies...you have to understand the medium. Marketing classes in college exist to turn out marketers who will sponge off corporations and deliver no results. |
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
If I get stuff that's mispelled or looks bad, it underminds my confidence in the content. But that's me. (Not that I'm a such a great speller myself!) But I'm sure it all depends on the individual consumer.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Leo B. Domapias Loyal user 297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-01-18 17:50, Zack wrote: In turn, can you also state precisely which "marketing classes in college exist to turn out marketers who will sponge off corporations and deliver no results?" I don't believe there's a college curriculum in the world with an academic goal like that. You see, I took marketing subjects in college, and my professors never taught me marketing techniques on "how to sponge off clients and deliver no results". Or did I miss a trick or two from my professors? Likewise, may I know which studies you are referring to that support misspelling as an effective marketing technique to increase a copy's sale? I'm sure many will be interested to know, because these studies have been bandied about for quite some time now but few people seem to be aware of their existence. Leo Manila, Philippines |
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cheesewrestler Inner circle Chicago 1157 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-01-18 19:40, Leo B. Domapias wrote: Looks like Dave Dee took such a course. Just substituting the words "credulous individuals" for "corporations" |
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Zack Special user 551 Posts |
Check out "The Fall of Advertising and the Rise of PR" for a lucid study of whats wrong with conventional advertising.
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bsears Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 1040 Posts |
James is correct: poor punctuation and grammar equals unprofessional to me. I would walk the other way.
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DVA Regular user 142 Posts |
Zack I respect your point of view. All I did was to read the article and comprehend it.
He didn't have real world experience doing the types of shows he was teaching people about. He states it in the article that was linked to. It isn't speculation when he is the one saying it. You're right about me not having a clue about infoproducts game. If that means I have much more respect for MY consumers to put out inferior products regardless of if they move or not then you are correct. Products that aren't tested for flaws in theories or applications BEFORE they are sold is not something I would want my company's name on. Further, if I recieved a course, that I had paid for, it should not have grammar mistakes. That tells me the person did not care enough about the information to check it. If you think it makes it look like it was written by a "real person" then I have some nice essays written in crayon for sale. Zack the only offense I took to your post is when you said that what I had written was really, really stupid. Swimming with sharks wearing a scuba suit of meat is stupid. What I wrote was not. The fact is he didn't care that he sent out a product with mistakes in it. He says so himself. He just wanted to make money. That is what I have a problem with. Thank you for your insights. DVA |
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AlmostAmazingJames New user 80 Posts |
Do you think Dave Dee ever liked magic to begin with?
James Harvey
www.almostamazingmagic.com |
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
I guess it really doesn't matter if he liked magic. I, for one, have a passion and love for magic/entertaining, yet I do it for a fulltime job. Some treat it as just that, a business.
Ken |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
MagicMikey says:
"The reason you'll never find him responding to these posts is he really doesn't care what his critics think. He only cares about what his customers think." Though you state this as fact, it is likely there are different reasons why he doesn't respond to these posts. It appears his critics ARE his customers. |
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
I think what Mr. Dee says in that other internet ad that started all this talk must be taken with a grain of salt. He's bound to skew what he says in order to make his sales points. Maybe part of the passion we're hearing here might have to do with people taking offense at him disparging magicians and/or magic.
The other thing, I would say, is that ultimately it doesn't matter if he's any good at magic or if he's the very best. What matters is he does his material/course/ eteachings work for you in the real world. There are, I think, examples where the best people in a given field can't teach worth a da*m. And others who are mediocre are great teachers. Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
Keith,
I have to disagree with your comment that his critics are his customers. There was a room full of his customers giving him a standing ovation in November. I'm amazed at how many people are worked up by this. If you don't like Dave's stuff, stay away from it. If you disagree with his marketing methods or don't trust him, it's okay to say that, but I see a lot of people really ripping into Dave without any direct knowledge of what he's like or what his true intentions are. I'm also frustrated by the number of people making assumptions about Dave. DVA says, "He may have been doing kids shows and he may have been successful. How can we know for sure?" Well, Ken Scott said, in another thread, "Having lived and worked in Atlanta and worked in the same market as Dave Dee. He and I both advertised in the same books. I know he was very busy in the birthday market and then so in the Daycare market. So if his programs were based on those two things then I would say YES he is walking the walk." Look, it's fine with me if you don't like him, his methods, or his courses, but can't we keep it civil? I think there's some really unnecessary attacks going on here. Michael |
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DVA Regular user 142 Posts |
The question I posed is from reading two different web sites. It says very plainly on one that he is a successful children's entertainer doing 25-30 shows per month helping 1271 magicians earn more money. The copy leads the reader to believe he turned his life around doing children's shows. It also leads you to believe he is still doing shows.
Quote:
...By following the principles outlined in his course, and by painstakingly adapting them to show business (his course had nothing to do with magic or performing), I transformed my career and my life almost instantly. “The dream” had become reality.... The other site says that his magic business is a J-O-B (just over broke). It also says how he found the info product game. It leads the reader to believe his informational marketing product was how he turned his life around. Quote:
Anyway, after I discovered the real secrets to mail order and used them to sell my course to magicians, my life completely changed.... So which is it? Do I believe his magic site or do I believe his info product site? Again I ask "Can you trust anything he says?". In my book being just over broke is not being successful in any business. "Just over Broke" means "Just Out of Business" to me. I do understand that he would want to slant his marketing towards his target market, but to create a whole untruth or create a perception that creates an untruth in the mind of the consumer is shady marketing. If he was doing well with magic say that. If he wanted to make more money than those 25-30 shows a month could provide say that. Don't mislead me. If I catch you the power of negative word of mouth advertising can be overwhelming. I'm not denying that Dave Dee is very good at making money. I see his logic as something like this- Do you want to make money? I make money, it was easy so if I make money it will be easy for you to make money so buy my course because I make money... Circular logic is a trap that even intelligent people can fall into. Just to be clear Dave Dee's course may include information that has some value with regard to marketing your entertainment business. I highly doubt that any of it is original to him (whether or not that is a selling point is up to the individual). His statement about creating a product over a weekend should be testament to the in depth research he puts into his products. My advice is save your money, go to the library and do some research for yourself. |
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Creative Coach Loyal user Anderson, SC 294 Posts |
DVD-
As a former Atlanta, GA performer for 20+ yrs I can say I suspect he made his money and saved himself from debt by selling magicians info products. In 20+ yrs fulltime performing in Atlanta I never once ran into anyone that had ever hired him. Of course, Atlanta is a big place. He briefly ran an ad in the local parenting magazine. I never EVER ran into him in the daycare market. And I was doing 685 shows a yr in them! Among the local performers it was, Dave Who? I think he got the idea on selling a "system" to other performers from attending a Dan Kennedy seminar. If you like selling the Dan Kennedy way more power to you. For X amount of dollars you can repackage his info product to your market too. I wouldn't follow his advice but to each his own. Why is Dan Kennedy & Dave Dee successful? There are always people who hate their 9-5 job and are looking for an escape hatch. They're looking for "Instant Success In A Box" That's why the lottery is so big amoung the poor. If more people quit searching for the "Magic It" and realized success is really up to YOU, maybe the info-brokers would dry up. Dee's "system" may or may not work. Some people in the Café think he's great! I have seen his materials and have personally coached many people who have used his "system" and almost gone broke. The choice is ultimately yours, the consumer. People need to accept personal responsibility. Your life and business are exactly what you make it. Most people gripe, complain and chase the latest "guru". Quit wasting your resources and time on arguing over Dave Dee. He is just is what he is. No less, no more! And that is for you to decide. Do you buy or not? That my friends, is up to you! |
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Leo B. Domapias Loyal user 297 Posts |
My psychic vision foresees no end to this controversy. As long as the new breed of marketers don’t tone down the hype and be willing to spend more time than a weekend to write a marketing product, there will always be dissatisfied customers along with happy buyers.
Leo Manila, Philippines |
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