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imagique
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Hi,

What is the name of the wrist tie where the rope is wrapped twice around the first wrist, tying a single time around on the second wrist, leaving a situation of twisting for the slack?

I am using this concept with another effect, and I would like to give correct credit. I've been thinking incorrectly that it's a Kellar tie, but I am wrong, that is a differently achieved slack.

Thanks,

Jimmy
The Donster
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I'm not sure what tie it is. but you might want to post a question about it there in the rope section
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
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It has probably had a few names. I think Burling Hull called it a 'simplified' or 'simplex' tie (don't hold me to that).

In "Rope, Chain & Box Escapes," U.F. Grant called it the 'Zella master tie.'

I believe it's also referred to, by whatever name, in "Encyclopedia of Escapes."

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
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If I could see a picture of it I could probally help more. I do have both books.
imagique
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Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it! I must have had those books at one time or another, because, I can picture it clearly in my mind.

The visual on it is this. A wrist, with the hand palm facing upward. The rope is layed across the wrist, comes around, under, and back over, and then once again. There are three lines of rope across the wrist. If you were to have a mirror on the floor, you would see 2 lines across the underside of the wrist. You lay the other wrist directly over that wrist, parallel, palm to palm. The ends of the rope are brought up around that wrist on their respective sides, and tied as tightly as humanly possible. It's best to have a piece of rope that is a length that encourages the spectator to tie this at the top of the 2nd hand, and not too long where he insists on trying to tie it back around both hands. Also, nylon rope with a simple, good square knot makes it a good convincing entrapment, and yet it's not impossible for them to untie at the end of the routine.

I tried to attach pics, but no luck. What's up with that?
critic
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This is most effective with large thick chain and a borrowed padlock. Zella master tie, or Z tie.
The Donster
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Why not do the siberian chain escape instead.
critic
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The siberian requires the siberian chain. The Z tie can be done with any chain and lock.
imagique
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Hey Critic,

Thanks, I think that the Zella term is correct.

However, I disagree with you about the chain's effect. Of course, people think that the chain is stronger, but, from a theatrics standpoint, you can't really get the chain to 'dig' in as consistently as a strong man in the audience tying a square knot. And the legitimacy of the lock is always in question, because locks are beyond the scope of the audience's experience. Sometimes that makes the audience more interested, but you lose the connection of common items that rope offers.

Maybe, you're right about the chain, like people automatically prefer the bigger illusion...
The Donster
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Why not try both and see which one gets the better results.
imagique
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Why not chains? Like I said, I don't like the flashy, glitzy escapes that are pushed down our throats on TV shows, and I'd prefer to do something a lot more organic than chains. The public perception on the chain stuff is, obviously, mechanical. Now, they may WANT mechanical, but my personal preference is down and dirty rope, tied by the audience member. Now, usually this means dead air time, but I have a situation where two people are tying at the same time, one wrist each, to the ends of a board, and they are only tying a square knot that will still be intact after the jacket is put on, a la GRT.

Any ideas on selling the audience on how much more impossible the escape and re-entry is than just an escape?
The Donster
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It's hard to say right now. how are you trying to sell it.
imagique
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I'm selling as a comedy bit, with the jacket being on me after the 'magic' is done. I.E., he's still tied up, but he's got the jacket on now...

It uses a 2 1/2' long board with holes drilled near the ends. There is a short piece of rope threaded through the holes at each end. These are tied around my wrists, as tightly as possible. There's also a longer rope draped over the middle of the board that is grabbed through the legs (strait jacket bits) wrapped around the thighs and around the board and tied. This really adds a lot of comedy and fun bits.

I'm having a hard time getting everyone to get what just happened. I started out doing behind a curtain on a rod. I would have the helper standing with me behind the curtain, and he would raise the rod and curtain assembly, I would grab the curtain with the hand that is worked free within under a second. I would stage cue him to remove his jacket, he would, and then I would have him take the curtain back, and I would be back into his jacket in under 4 seconds. I would yell "Drop it" and when he dropped it, I would have his jacket on, completely tied back in with the same knots and original setup.

Problem was, it took him longer to remove his jacket than it took me to do any of my part, and by that time, it was a 10 second switch, with a lot of dead air. I added music, animated actions behind the curtain, etc., and it still felt slow. I guess that after ten seconds, the audience forgot that I wasn't wearing his jacket in the first place.

I'm considering using two men on stage, and having one remove his jacket. Have them stand shoulder to shoulder and toss the jacket over one of their arms. I could do the effect slightly obscured, without totally giving away the secret, just giving enough to convince them that I was really escaping and getting back in.

I just don't know what's missing to put this one over the top like it deserves to be. It's like a one man Gypsy Rope Tie, but with the audience verifying and DOING the knot tying.

thanks for any suggestions,

Jimmy
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Jimmy your welcome. just be sure the audience don't goof up the tie.
EscapeMaster
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Raise the curtain once, do all the cuing and make sure he realises how fast he has to go (get any microphones turned off, this is easy to arrange).

Then drop the curtain and give a little gag like "No, we're still here."

Then when the curtain does go up there is not time wasted cuing and no delay while the bloke tries to work out what you really mean.

As for the audience realising, it is almost better that a good few do not realise at once then the reaction builds. When selecting the volunteer say you need one with a nice jacket or similarly draw attention to what he is wearing.

In my humble opinion you definitely do not want the audience to think you have escaped and got back in. If they formulate that idea themselves then no problem, but this is a magical, elegant effect; giving it an ostentatious method clubs it into a hideous mess.
imagique
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Awesome tips, I appreciate it! The retry is a great idea...

I see what you mean about it being a magical, elegant effect... maybe I'm trying too hard to sell it as the really incredible escape and reversal that it is.

In terms of the question before by Donster, with the pillory board, as I call it, there is no possibility of the audience member screwing up the tie in a way that I can't get out. What has happened, though, is that they have not tied the knot tightly enough or with a granny that came undone on it's own after the escape, making it almost impossible to complete the effect effectively.

This pillory board is an incredibly subtle, ungimmicked, simple, fair escape prop.It is is one of the coolest constraints that I've ever seen.
The Donster
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There are a lot of escapes that have been done and forgotten. not a lot of people record what was done or where.
EscapeMaster
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How pertinent.

Wise words.
The Donster
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I'm looking for a certain rope tie to. but the one I'm looking for seems to be forgotten already.
imagique
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Hey everybody!

I did the effect with the board described above ("No Escape"). Tonight it killed!

Here's what I did differently... I didn't use the curtain. Instead, I invited two gentlemen to the stage, and asked one to take off his coat. I draped the coat over the OTHER man's arm, and had them tie me onto the board, as described above. I then had the men face the audience, two abreast, shoulder to shoulder, making them the curtain. Without saying anything, or letting them know that I was starting to do something, I went behind the 'man wall' and released one hand, immediately grabbing the jacket.

The partially obscured view left the audience more interested in what was going on than a true curtain. And, yet, through the proper angles and turning at critical points, I was able to retain enough mystery and chaos to justify any peeks.

It was literally seconds after beginning the escape that I pushed my way through the helpers, completely tied up again, wearing the coat. The audience went nuts!

I think that the keys here were:

1. You have to hit them over the head with the fact that the jacket is going to be used for something. Getting the jacket off of the guy with the curtain up just took too long, and people didn't realize that the jacket was ever an issue.

2. Indiscernible action behind the two men standing in front was much more entertaining than total suspense behind a flat curtain.

3. The showmanship of bursting through the helpers was more comparable to a jailbreak or a football game than a flashy escape trick.

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. Escape Master's ideas would have been useful if I had brought the curtain, but the spirit of his intentions were carried out with the 'human shields.' Tease, set 'em up, give a little here and there...

It was awesome, thanks again, I am thrilled, and I don't want to even do my gigs without this escape.

Jimmy
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